Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

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vermonter
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by vermonter »

After Emailing Walt Wolff copies of your feedback, I received this reply. We now have a good fitting set of recoil springs that are designed for the gun and properly fitted hammer springs of a good, safe weight range. I talked with one of the designers and they said there is a difference between the PPK hammer springs and these new ones. You can place your orders AFTER Wednesday 1-800-545-0077

Dave:
It was good to talk with you yesterday. I appreciate the information and the comments.
I have settled on 17-20 pound hammer springs for the pistol. From out testing here and your comments
I think this will provide a good working range of springs and allow a good improvement
in DA function yet keep the pistol reliable. The 17 pound spring will be available only individually,
The hammer spring pak will contain the 18, 19 and 20 pound springs.

If you need any further information, please email me.

Thanks again for you assistance.
Walt
Last edited by vermonter on March 6th, 2007, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stibnite
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by stibnite »

Is it advisable to also get a new recoil spring if you are putting in a new hammer spring? I seem to remember reading how one also affects the other. Anyone know?

stibnite
vermonter
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by vermonter »

In the case of the P-64 I would get both. I am opting for the 20 LB hammer spring with a 20 LB recoil spring. Saands has played with this pistol ALOT and would be the best one to answer how the 2 are related and what the best weights are to achieve a good balance
saands
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by saands »

VT: No mention about the recoil spring weights that they will be offering???

I'm pretty sure that the spontaneous mag eject problem is caused by the slide slamming into the frame and rattling the mag retainer (which is held in place by that very same mainspring) so that the mag is released. If you go with the really light mainsprings, you might avoid the mag ejection problem if you also upgrade the recoil spring.

FWIW, I will be ordering the stiffest recoil spring that they can make. After looking at this mechanical system for quite awhile, I suspect that the original designers opted for the stiffest spring they could when they first built them, but there just isn't much more space in there and I'm betting that they didn't have good enough materials available to make it stiffer AND be assured that the spring wouldn't yield and therefore fail in use. I also know that they were looking to minimize the size of this little gem (reliable pistols this size just don't happen by chance!) and I imagine that the slide slamming into the frame at the end of travel was simply the price to be paid for that reliable but compact package ...

To the question of whether to upgrade one or both, I think that we need to be careful NOT to get confused by the "spring rating" of the PP mainsprings with that of the "real" P64 mainsprings. I have NO idea if they are equivalent or not. If they are, I don't think that there is any harm in getting an 18-20# mainspring and leaving the recoil spring stock ... but I'd have to ask "WHY? Do you LIKE the way it stings when you pull the trigger?" ;)

I wasn't satisfied with the HK P7 spring mod for two reasons ... 1: it was cut and I don't like to cut heat treated steel and 2: it rubbed on the inside of the slide. That being said, I have to also say that it made the P64 a LOT more comfortable to shoot ;D ;D ;D so I am looking forward to getting an honest upgrade ... thanks once more to Vermonteer for getting the ball rolling.

Saands

ps ... hate to sound anxious, but does
You can place your orders AFTER Wednesday 1-800-545-0077
mean order ON Wednesday or on Thursday ???
vermonter
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by vermonter »

Saands,

I tried to PM you, I'm not sure if you got it and if your last post was a reply. The recoil springs are already done, but not priced and ready for sale until the end of the week. They will be available in 19, 20, and 22 LB. I am going to get a 22 LB recoil and use a 20 LB hammer spring and see how that combo works. I want the heaviest S/A pull for safety since my only purpose for having this gun is for CCW. It will still be an improvement over the 25 LB and will also have less stress when the hammer hits the safety. Also by using the 22 LB recoil I believe it will save the frame (and my hand). Based on the heavy recoil and light slide I don't think the 22 LB will be too heavy and cause any FTE's. Your thoughts on the 22/20 combo?
Dave

P.S. I called the gal who takes the orders and she said the springs aren't even priced yet, so I am thinking more like Thursday. I will call them daily and post as soon as they are ready to take orders.
Last edited by vermonter on March 6th, 2007, 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pshootr
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by pshootr »

+1 !!!
If it were not for the P-64 board these springs would never have come into being.
devlinfaust
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by devlinfaust »

I agree 100%, Pshootr! Thanks to Vermonter and all of the fine folks on this site that harassed Wolff. A win-win situation for both us and Wolff, I think!

I am looking forward to making my order as soon as th springs are listed on their website!

Again, thanks to all!
saands
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by saands »

Vermonter:

I just got your PM, but I'll reply here just in case it is of value to the rest.

I'm not sure WHERE in the stroke Wolff measures their spring force. Technically springs have a rate (lbs per inch), and you can define how much energy they store when compressed (ft-lbs), but to boil it all down to a force (lbs) you have to define how much they are compressed. Anyway, by my calculations, the HK spring mod stored 20% more energy in use than a factory spring and has about 15% more force than factory when the slide was fully retracted. The HK spring helped tame the recoil, but the P64 still ejects cases with complete authority ... we aren't talking a nice neat stack of empties 3-6 feet away ... even with the upgrade!

I think that the 22 lb recoil spring will be great

Again ... I don't know where they are measuring the P64 mainsprings and how those compare to the PP spring in terms of rating ... is a 19#PP equivalent to a 20#P64? Is it the other way around? I do know that we compress the PP springs a little more than the P64 springs ... so it is entirely possible (probable?) that the numbers will NOT agree. I think that this is actually one case where, at least until we try the real ones, there is actually more data out there on the unauthorized parts than there is on the real ones. If the numbers of these springs DO agree with the PP numbers, then the 22/20 combo sounds like a winner. I'll be using the 22/19 ... but I'll likely buy a pack of mainsprings just to report on them to the rest of the group here and once I try the real ones, I may stick with them.

Saands
nicksterdemus
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Hammer Spring News from Wolff!

Post by nicksterdemus »

Vermonter:

Anyway, by my calculations, the HK spring mod stored 20% more energy in use than a factory spring and has about 15% more force than factory when the slide was fully retracted. The HK spring helped tame the recoil, but the P64 still ejects cases with complete authority ... we aren't talking a nice neat stack of empties 3-6 feet away ... even with the upgrade!
If the 22lb(If indeed that is the highest rated recoil spring) hurls hulls consistently beyond 8' then I'm gonna wanna send an e-mail 2 Walt myself. In order 2 mix n match ya need a variety available. I like my DA autoloaders 2 mimic the action on my DA wheelguns. Some folks would consider them hair triggers in SA. The little 17hmr rifle of mine runs 2lb n definitely has a hair trigger. I voided the warranty 2 bring it down(cut the spring in the accutrigger, imagine that.). In order 2 get the SA where I like it I need a heavy recoil 2 take up the slack. The heaviest recoil combined w/lightest mainspring should leave hulls in 4-6' range. The new standard recoil spring should be stronger/higher lb rating than the 30-40 yr old springs that came w/64. If you like a heavier mainspring then you shouldn't need the heaviest recoil spring. The heaviest of both should leave hulls 2-4' away. My S&W 1006 running FBI loads of 361'lb will leave brass @ my feet/within arms length. If ya crank up the volume 2 'round 700'lb of energy @ muzzle ya 4get 2 look 4 brass from being disoriented by muzzle flash........................
Last edited by nicksterdemus on March 8th, 2007, 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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