FMJ or HP in 9x18?

[GeneCC]

Critical Defense. It'll handle winter coats and leather jackets per Hornady.

I won't use FMJ except for the 25 ACP, which I have no carried in many moons. I'm concerned about over penetration and ricochet.

[frankmako]

for me any thing smaller than a 9mm i carry fmj only. for my p64's it is fmj ammo.

[kyrpa]

Critical Defense. It'll handle winter coats and leather jackets per Hornady.

How does your P64 handle those? My local shop just got in a shitload of them in 9x18, I am hesitant to invest in a few boxes for practice & carry since mine seems to only like Russian ammo, and I have some Silver Bear HPs.... but the wife has them in .380 and her Sig P238 loves them.

[GeneCC]

Critical Defense. It'll handle winter coats and leather jackets per Hornady.

How does your P64 handle those? My local shop just got in a shitload of them in 9x18, I am hesitant to invest in a few boxes for practice & carry since mine seems to only like Russian ammo, and I have some Silver Bear HPs.... but the wife has them in .380 and her Sig P238 loves them.

Never had a problem with feeding, firing or extraction with Hornady. Ever. Recoil is milder than Silver Bear.

I use Silver Bear. I regret that I did not test the other day. I'm in the Hurricane strike zone and won't be at the range for a while.

[Ergo]

I see a lot of numbers bandied about. I wonder how many of them were tested in a P64 with consistent distances from the muzzle.

I bet the velocity and penetration is less than advertised, when shot through these pocket guns.

I made some handloads for my cz82 and could not equal the performance and accuracy of the wolf FMJ rounds. They would get to 1000fps with that gun. Not done much testing with the P64 but have stayed with the Wolf FMJ.

I am sure this has come up but these guns are designed to be used with eastern block steel cased ammo.

[Legally Armed]

I see a lot of numbers bandied about. I wonder how many of them were tested in a P64 with consistent distances from the muzzle.

I bet the velocity and penetration is less than advertised, when shot through these pocket guns.

I made some handloads for my cz82 and could not equal the performance and accuracy of the wolf FMJ rounds. They would get to 1000fps with that gun. Not done much testing with the P64 but have stayed with the Wolf FMJ.

I am sure this has come up but these guns are designed to be used with eastern block steel cased ammo.

I don't know quite why that is, but I can't disagree. I have modern guns that don't like wolf and tula; all my commie guns eat any steel cased stuff like a pit bull eats a pork chop.

[neth]

Another +1 for Hornady Critical Defense. Shoots like a dream in both my CZ-82 and P-64 and I trust it's reputation. $16-17 box/25 from Cheaper Than Dirt. Also look at the 9x18 Mak offering from Underwood Ammo. It's a Hornady XTP HP bullet at what would be a +P loading if 9x18 had a +P spec. Roughly same price per round as Hornady CD. The higher pressure is proven in the CZ82, but I haven't heard about it's viability in the P64 yet.

[GeneCC]

I see a lot of numbers bandied about. I wonder how many of them were tested in a P64 with consistent distances from the muzzle.

I bet the velocity and penetration is less than advertised, when shot through these pocket guns.

I made some handloads for my cz82 and could not equal the performance and accuracy of the wolf FMJ rounds. They would get to 1000fps with that gun. Not done much testing with the P64 but have stayed with the Wolf FMJ.

I am sure this has come up but these guns are designed to be used with eastern block steel cased ammo.

The results that I posted in this section of the forum were from about a meter from the muzzle. Only the Prvi Partizan went over 1,000 feet per second. The recoil was punishing and the shot to shot variation was the worst of the lot.

It's really difficult to get a professional level of shot to shot consistency with just a chronograph. Likely the staff at the Russian sites where Wolf obtains their ammo have access to pressure barrels with piezo or strain gauge devices. Those devices allow you to fine tune the spikes and variations of pressures. You can test lots of rounds to find nice stable areas of operating pressures.

I'm not a big fan of "souped up" rounds. The margin of extra kinetic energy isn't worth the delay in sight reacquisition and coping with muzzle blast (most Close Encounters of the Bad Kind occur after dark).

In any case the P-64 is not designed for precision shooting. Dispersion probably isn't a big deal. What is a big deal is making repeated shots more difficult.

[magnum42069]

The curves of the bullet of fmj 9x18 exactly match the profile of a 9x18 HP. My pa63 and p64 eat both reliably. I suspect problems r rare. Always range test. Silver bear HP r smooth shooting and cheap.

[dalek]

I myself have been using Fiocchi FMJ in the range in my P64; I bought 500 rounds so that is the round I will be using to improve my skills. I do not think its kick is bad -- friends who tried it felt it was punishing -- but I can only compare it to the HP Silver Bear.

I would like to try Prvi Partisan on it. I also bought (arrived today) a box of Buffalo Bore 115 gr. Hard cast FN. I wonder how it will do.

[Ketchman]

Dalek, please give us a range report on those Buffalo Bore 115gr hard casts! I have been wondering about those for winter use in my CZ82 and P-64 but cannot find anyone who has fired them. Inquiring minds want to know!

[Curly1]

+1, a range report on the Buffalo's would be appreciated.

[dalek]

Will do. All in the name of... science!

[dalek]

So yesterday I went to the range and shot 2 of the buffalo bores in the P64. I alternated them between 95gr Fiocchi FMJ in a single mag -- FBFBF -- so I could compare the kick between the two different rounds. It might be just be me, who I must warn is not built like the US Marines from the ads or movies, but I honestly did not feel much of a difference between that and the Fiocchis I normally shoot. It was definitively not the arm-tearing kick similar to what you are "supposed" to get if, say, you shoot a 9x19 in the P64 (too bad nobody is crazy enough to have tried that). Completely manageable IMHO.

Of course the only reference I have is shooting commercial and then surplus ammo in my Enfield; the surplus one kicked harder and sharper than the commercial. But, in this case I did not notice anything special.

Now, what concerned me of all people is how the cartridge looked after being shot:

Can you see the bulging on the rear 3rd of the cartridge? I do not know if you can see it, but there is a kink on the right cartridge just where its bulging starts. None of the Fiocchi rounds I shot before and after this had any bulging whatsoever (I saved all the cartridges). After seeing this I was actually concerned a ruptured buffalo bore cartridge might happen in the future.

Oh, it also left a lot of combustion deposits around the breech and ramp area. I have never seen so much deposits, and I have shot Wolf before (most recently in my Dreyse). Inside the barrel you can also see some shards, which I think are probably lead pieces that were shaved out of the bullets by the rifling. I do not know if I can make that show up in a picture but I definitively can show the combustion deposits.

[Curly1]

IIRC it has been posted here that brass casings will bulge due to the unsupported area in the chamber area for the casing.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.