+P Ammo

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kempin
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+P Ammo

Post by kempin »

nbender,

You are right to be batty about the vagueness of my answer, because I was speaking in general terms. I have not bought any factory 9x18 for going on two years, and so I don't have anything specific to add about the MFS ammo.

The fuller thought behind my brief comment is my own personal bias that pretty much any factory ammo is designed for a Makarov, which we've agreed is beefier than a p-64. I would therefore make the sweeping (and, I admit, highly prejudiced) conclusion that most factory ammo is a bit "hot" for a p-64; particularly the Russian stuff.

I am not saying that the ammo is unsafe, or even that it would not shoot well. It has just felt to me like most factory loads are a bit hard on the pistol. Kind of like shooting hot magnum loads through a k-frame smith and wesson. It can handle it, but it shortens the life of the pistol.

Nothing much of science behind that, though. Just another free opinion.

God bless and straight shooting,

-Kempin
nbender
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Post by nbender »

Kempin,

I can appreciate that sentiment, because the P-64 does give a bit of recoil with all factory loads. But I have to trust that they built it to withstand C.I.P. established pressures.

Mark, I'm 3,000 miles from home and I don't have that pressure data from the factory with me. I remember the 19,000+ psi that I quoted was the highest in the string, but not much else. If I had the data with me I'd do the high-low spread and SD statistics on it but that will have to wait until another 8 days when I get home.

Eastern Pennsylvania this time of year - who scheduled this trip??
bzinggg
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Post by bzinggg »

nbender, your post over at gunboards.com says the 19,334psi was the highest of the 30 tested, where did the average fall or were all the others fight around the 19,000psi?

I too was not sure what ammo was hot. From the info that was on this web site I did not see that MFS +P was "hot". The question came about because the range I go to will not let you use steel bullets and this is the only ammo that I have seen lately that is brass. I am not looking for something more powerful or to damage my P-64, just something to use at the range.
In my experience, the steel "ammo" that's forbidden in ranges refers to the projectile composition, not the case. However, I'm not saying that you are wrong. Maybe the owner doesn't want to use a magnet to clean the brass up in the spent case drum headed for the recyclers.
mark076
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Post by mark076 »

bzinggg, the projectile in most 9x18, that I have shot, is steel, it maybe copper coated, but it still adheres to the magnet. The range does the same thing with the magnet and that is how they determine. They have never said anything about the casing being steel. The projectile on MFS+P and S&B (green/red/white box) are copper jacketed and not magnet and they have no problem with those. They don't want us shooting the Barnaul, Silver Bear, Brown Bear etc with the steel jacket. They have told me the back stop is not made for the steel projectiles, so I am just trying to follow the rules.

Over on gunboards.com there is a great resource of 9x18 ammo, you may have seen it, here is the link http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.a ... _ID=110185. Thanks for your thoughts
nbender
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Post by nbender »

My closest range started preventing us from shooting steel cases last year. They want to recycle brass without having to sort it. I haven't gone there since. I've only found one 9x18 variety that has a steel-cored bullet, and it's extremely rare. Comes in a 16-round cardboard box with no markings on it, with a corrosive primer; mine is headstamped "38 87". The rest of the ammunition with a magnetic bullet has a lead core with a thin copper-washed steel outer casing. A range can't tell that from steel-cored ammo so they just ban it.
bzinggg
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Post by bzinggg »

The copper-washed steel jacket is constructed thusly:

Image
This is a Soft Point. The FMJ jacket is closed around the tip. Extrapolate.

This image from an investigation on the 7.62x39 Russian I did a while back. The 9x18 is, of course, many times similarly jacketed.
There's an interesting fact about the deformity that takes place on a lead projectile jacketed in this way. With sufficient charge, this type bullet deforms slightly upon impact with skin and clothing and sometimes dramatically with impact upon bone, depositing energy at each instance, relatively. A lot of thought went into the design as a result of the restrictions against HPs and SPs, etc. Just a little deformity at high velocity can increase shock and the size, shape and direction of the wound channel. The tip can flatten on an FMJ 9x18 round and make for quite an effective little tumbler. No telling how many tens of thousands of people have been killed by them.
nicksterdemus
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Post by nicksterdemus »

I'm startin' 2 feel a lot better 'bout da free federal ranges I go 2.................
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