Chronograph Results

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GeneCC
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Chronograph Results

Post by GeneCC » February 4th, 2012, 7:04 pm

Tried three rounds with my new Chronograph today in my P-64

Chrono - ProChrono
Ambient - approximate 32 fahrenheit

Silver Bear 94gr FMJ
Average - 965 ft/sec, 1st std dev 21 ft/sec

Hornady Critical Defense 95gr FTX-CD
Average - 973 ft/sec, 1st std dev 10 ft/sec

Winchester Western Metric 95gr FMJ
Average - 888 ft/sec 1st std dev 80 ft/sec


Notes: I was working at the bottom end of the chronograph's rated temperature rating. I suspect that the WW ammo may have been shot when the Chronograph got "flaky". Alternately the WW jacket fooled the chonograph, which I'd believe except for the Golden Saber (380 ACP) below.

I shot some comparison strings with a Ruger LCP loaded as follows.

Hornady Critical Defense 380 ACP 90 gr

I'm going to give raw data here....

864 (ft/sec)
146
150
811
883

Firearm cycled fully - I am suspicious of these results.

Discarding the outliers
average 849 ft/sec, 1st std dev - 34 ft/sec

Remington Golden Saber 102gr HP
773
850
796
883
(two lost shots)
Avg 825 ft/sec 1st std dev - 50 ft/sec

Conclusions..

1. More data taken on a warmer day is required.
2. Accepting that the LCP data is not too off the P-64 slightly out performs a comparable 380 ACP concealed carry handgun.
3. The Hornady CD has a gentle recoil and very tight dispersion. Its performance is probably close to a similar product in 38 snub nose but this is speculation.

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blinddog
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by blinddog » February 7th, 2012, 10:56 pm

Thank you for posting that information. I wondered how close a 9x18 round was to a 380.

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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by GeneCC » February 14th, 2012, 8:33 pm

I'd like to do the comparisons again when it's warm outside. I think that the Chronograph will work properly. I'd also like to do a baseline against a Makarov and a 38 snubbie with light bullets.

What would be great would be some ballistic gelatin tests. I have a line on cheap gelatin, and might run a few just to see how the P-64 performs with "Defensive" loads.

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Gary2112
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by Gary2112 » February 14th, 2012, 8:41 pm

Where is the popcorn? I'm watching this thread. You got my attention! :shock:
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

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RobsTV
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by RobsTV » February 15th, 2012, 12:53 pm

So how do you like the ProChrono in general?
Did you also get the USB Digital interface with software?

Mine will be here tomorrow.
Hard to beat Grafs price of $85 for the ProChrono and $36 for the USB Digital Interface with software.

I have never used factory ammo in the P-64, only Berry's Plated bullets, so it will be interesting to compare my ProChrono results with your factory ammo results.

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blinddog
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by blinddog » February 15th, 2012, 3:23 pm

Keep this post going! I think with some of the new and improved 380 ammo out there one will see that a 38 snubbie will not be that much more powerful a round. The 9X18 might even be close to even with a 38. This is just speculation from me.

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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by RobsTV » February 28th, 2012, 7:28 am

My ProChrono results using 95gr Berry's Plated bullets and W231 powder, which ends up costing about 12 cents a round (Graf C&R discount bullet 6.5 cents, powder gun club 1.5 cent, primer gun club 3 cents, 9mm luger brass priced at $50 for 1000 trimmed to .706 and reloaded 5 times for 1 cents each)

W231 3.7gr, 872 fps, pf=83, 161 ft/lbs, ES-20, SD-7

W231 4.1gr, 975 fps, pf=93, 200 ft/lbs, ES-24, SD-10
The last one had a snappy recoil, but still nothing much.

This was done on a cold Florida day, with temps only hitting the low 60's.
Loads were not max or min, just a sample from that day to show comparison to above when reloaded.

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blinddog
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by blinddog » February 28th, 2012, 10:53 am

Thanks for the chrono results. That answers my questions on fps and ft. lbs. on the pistol. I think with the 2" bbl on the 38 snubbie results would be close, maybe a little more power, but not much more. Again speculation on my part. The reason I am compairing the two guns is alot of people say that the 38 snubbie is a better option for ccw than the 9x18 or 380 and I don't really agree with that statement.

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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by jstarck » March 12th, 2012, 10:04 am

blinddog wrote:Thanks for the chrono results. That answers my questions on fps and ft. lbs. on the pistol. I think with the 2" bbl on the 38 snubbie results would be close, maybe a little more power, but not much more. Again speculation on my part. The reason I am compairing the two guns is alot of people say that the 38 snubbie is a better option for ccw than the 9x18 or 380 and I don't really agree with that statement.
I just picked up a Smith & Wesson 638 for pocket carry and wondered about that very thing before I bought it. There is some pretty darn good defensive ammo out there for all calibers now. I have yet to try to Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P ammo that I bought, but out of a .38 snubbie, it's going something like 1050 fps supposedly. I certainly wouldn't fire a round that stout out of my gun regularly. I've been carrying 110 grain Hornady Critical Defense and trying to get my hands on some Speer Short Barrel 135 grain loads for it. I've seen reviews and tests on standard pressure 158 grain Buffalo Bore ammo going around 850 fps from a snubbie. Their 158 grain loads are semi-wadcutter hollow points. That's a pretty heavy bullet, so if it expands, I'd say it's going to give pretty good stopping power. With loads like that, I don't think a .380 will quite catch the .38, but I'm really impressed how far the little .380 has come as of late (or even the .38 for that matter!)

What do you guys think about using the 95 grain Buffalo Bore ammo in a P64? Is it too hot for the gun to handle? I'm using Hornady Critical Defense 95 gain loads now and they're very accurate for me (albeit more pricey than Silver Bear).

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blinddog
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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by blinddog » March 12th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Buffalo Bore in +P used in a 38 snubbie would be a hand full. but for good ammo Hornady CD is imho some of the best personal defensed ammo on the market. It feeds good in all of the pistoles I shoot it in (Makarov, P-64 and LCP) and as far as I can tell from what I have read on line the penetration is pretty good. The 9X18 in one test had an 11 inch penetration in 4 layers of denim and ballastic jell using Hornady CD. Not too shabby.

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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by RobsTV » March 27th, 2012, 10:53 am

RobsTV wrote:My ProChrono results using 95gr Berry's Plated bullets and W231 powder, which ends up costing about 12 cents a round (Graf C&R discount bullet 6.5 cents, powder gun club 1.5 cent, primer gun club 3 cents, 9mm luger brass priced at $50 for 1000 trimmed to .706 and reloaded 5 times for 1 cents each)

W231 3.7gr, 872 fps, pf=83, 161 ft/lbs, ES-20, SD-7

W231 4.1gr, 975 fps, pf=93, 200 ft/lbs, ES-24, SD-10
The last one had a snappy recoil, but still nothing much.

This was done on a cold Florida day, with temps only hitting the low 60's.
Loads were not max or min, just a sample from that day to show comparison to above when reloaded.
Turns out I had a bad digital scale during prior test results posted.
Chronograph numbers were not in the ballpark I was expecting after testing several various calibers I reload. This is an example of how a Chronograph can assist you.

Using a cheap Lee powder mechanical beam scale, all good now, with much more powerful results. Still need to do some tweaking to lower spread, such as crimp and OAL(.965)

W231 4.15gr,
Avg: 1060 fps, pf=101, 238 ft/lbs, ES-186, SD-59 (10 shots)
(1193fps, 300ftlbs max hi)

W231 3.9gr,
Avg: 1027 fps, pf=97, 221 ft/lbs, ES-47, SD-12 (10 shots)
(very accurate)

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Re: Chronograph Results

Post by jstarck » March 27th, 2012, 1:58 pm

blinddog wrote:Buffalo Bore in +P used in a 38 snubbie would be a hand full. but for good ammo Hornady CD is imho some of the best personal defensed ammo on the market. It feeds good in all of the pistoles I shoot it in (Makarov, P-64 and LCP) and as far as I can tell from what I have read on line the penetration is pretty good. The 9X18 in one test had an 11 inch penetration in 4 layers of denim and ballastic jell using Hornady CD. Not too shabby.
You said it. The 158 grain +P Buffalo Bore was pretty stout in my little 14oz J Frame snubbie. I put a few cylinders through it and it definitely has some kick. But if you look at the specs and muzzle energy, it's no surprise. I did find it to be quite accurate and not have a big flash, but it makes a helluva boom out of that little 1 7/8" barrel :) I have some of that as my primary "man stopper" ammo in my J Frame, but I also have some Hornady CD, Federal 129 grain Hydra Shok and a couple others to try just for fun. For pure muzzle energy and velocity with a heavy round, the Buffalo Bore is hard to beat, but I'd avoid it like the plague if you're recoil sensitive and using a light gun.

I'm really happy with the Hornady CD for my P64. The accuracy is excellent and I absolutely trust it to feed reliably and do what it's supposed to do. It's great defensive ammo, and you can find it for $18 or a bit less for a box of 25 at Cheaper Than Dirt. I was surprised how well I shot the Hornady CD at 25 yards with my P64. It's clean ammo too, so what's not to like? Reliable, accurate, clean, and offers good penetration and expansion. That's hard to beat!

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