The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

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qarlo
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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by qarlo » January 31st, 2007, 3:27 am

New to these parts so I hope to get some imput on this question of mine. After lurking for a few hours you all seem to be a cool cadre of fellas who know quite a bit. Here's my situation...

I'm a hard working LV III/Armed PSO (Private Security Officer) for one of the better PSCs here in San Antonio Texas that employs both PSO as well as Peace Officers; and come from a long line of family members that are LEOs and military. Currently my personal duty weapon is a Springfield Armory USGI M1911-A1, and old slab sides has been my favorite pistol since I first shot one at age 10... however, as of two days ago I had the opportunity of shooting my father's P-64 and fell in love with it. So much so I'm considering carrying one in place of the much heavier .45ACP as a duty weapon, only I can't seem to find any across the board "requirement" for barrel length for duty weapons. The S&W M586 revovler I used to carry with speed loaders was a 4 inch barrel, the M1911 I carry now is 5, from what I can see the P-64 is a 3.25 inch?

I recently sustained a herniated slipped disc on the job, on a patrol beat due to a fall I took that couldn't be avoided sadly, and the fact lugging around old "Sally" (my M1911) is a lot heavier than a Glock or most issued duty arms for LEOs. I'm doing a lot better now, but I'm not too crazy about lugging around Sally if I don't have to. After shooting the P-64 and being that the rule for weapon usage for a commissioned PSO is one of "last resort self defense" and not to enforce law and order... well I'm thinking having a P-64 as a light P.D.W. wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm simply amazed at the simplicity of how the weapon breaks down, and that dreaded 1st trigger pull doesn't bother me at all.

Would any of you see the P-64 as a possible duty weapon?

If not (aside from maybe the barrel length) would you please say why? From my prespective, and I've been in the private security sector long enough with various arms now, I see the pistol... though small, as "powerfull enough", and I've got (1) round more than when I carried the S&W M586 revovler, + 1 in the chamber. I'd say with an extra magazine, it would be enough for that last resort defense weapon. However, the wiser and older dad (former Nam vet and all) thinks I should just go with a IAI "Jerico" in .45ACP. I have to admit that seems tempting, but at this point I don't feel like shelling out another $500.00USD + for another pistol. The pricing on the P-64 is just right, it has *enough* power, and anything more than 13 shots (at least to me) would be a FUBAR situation to begin with.

So anyone have any pros and cons on this?

Thanks ahead of time.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by normsutton » January 31st, 2007, 6:29 am

Qarlo

WELCOME
I see no reason you couldn't carry the P-64 on duty the POLISH
police & the military carried it for years

just get a lot of practice in with the P-64


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bzinggg
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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by bzinggg » January 31st, 2007, 6:35 am

From what I understand, it stayed in service in Eastern Europe for 30 years after it's inception. That duty was armory-issue for police, agents and military personnel. It has certainly got some very serious history, then, as an accurate, effective, reliable and durable sidearm.

Now, a personal opinion (everybody's got one....), I think that the perp with the body armor is going to defeat the .45 and other common security personnel calibers and loads anyway with what is available in that technology nowadays. The P-64 cocked and firing SA will be more effective for specific round placement in exposed areas that would render the offender disabled and stopped. With practice, one can hit an apple easily at 21 feet and regularly out to 25 yards. The round is, on the average, deadly out past 50 yards.

On the other hand, I know how you feel about that .45. Depending on how you feel or what you have learned about a particular assignment, you might wisely select to carry either one, or both, as you thought appropriate for that application at that time.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by nicksterdemus » January 31st, 2007, 7:56 am

It's your life. I love the little gun coz it's accurate n small so I can stick it in my back pocket like a billfold which I don't carry. Should predators endanger my goats I'd have no prob dispensing them. Not my fav 4 that as a Rem speedloader w/short hp n a 2.5x oldie moldie scope. But I don't walk around w/REm.
Yes this weapon was an issue 4 several years but I feel it was more of an accessory to compliment other weapons. It is potent in that 190-220 0r so 'lbs is nuttin' 2 sneeze at but in todays world w/perps on meth, crack,pcp etc. ya face an even tougher time. It's a tuff call. By all means carry if a medical condition prevents ya from a heavier, larger caliber. What ya have 2 ask yaself is if ya have the confidence 2 use the 64 as a only carry.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by anjdrifter » January 31st, 2007, 9:52 am

Not to show my age but started out as a young leo with an old colt revolver then a few different versions of wheel guns, the last patrol one was a favorite "combat masterpiece" after that was plain clothes (really plain clothes as my wife pointed out) went thru them all autos ,wheels and etc the best advise is what one of last posters said pick the weapon for assignment if possible. remeber size doesnt matter it is how you handle it..
I would not hesitate to carry anytime anyplace just check your regs thats all at first your boss might look at it and not see it as suitable pay for a range visit he will soon change his mind.
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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by papabear » January 31st, 2007, 10:34 am

Qarlo,

First welcome aboard, glad to have ya here! ;D

Not having been a LEO or PSO all I can say is that my CCW is a P-64 and I trust it with my life and the lives of my family when we are not at home. At 21 feet or 25 yards it shoots POA. I have 3 different modes of carry depending on weather and situations, and I have put a couple thousand rounds down the tubes of my P-64's and for most here that is very a important part of CCW, know your weapon and know your limitations, practice, different stances, and practice with each hand, and then practice some more.

Regards,

Papabear
Last edited by papabear on January 31st, 2007, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by vermonter » January 31st, 2007, 11:40 am

I hav 6 years expeience as a small arms instructor in the USAF, and I'm also an NRA LE instructor. I would not feel "under gunned" with a P-64 for duty. Just get a couple of extra magazines (original milsurp) and you are good to go! Any holster for the sig P230 will fit it. Get one with a retention snap. If you carry a chambered round the heavy trigger pull is a blessing. Statistically during an encounter most of us will put the finger in the trigger when covering a suspect regardless of training. The heavy pull will give you a margin of safety. With all my training and knowledge the only guns I own are P-64 and a Bulgie Mak PM in 9X18. I do not not feel lacking when carrying either!

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by najaf » January 31st, 2007, 4:35 pm

Get a Galco IWB holster or a Bianchi Pro 100 for Sig 230 . It should be prefect CCW weapon.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by devlinfaust » January 31st, 2007, 4:39 pm

Qarlo,

Welcome to the forum. I agree with what Papa Bear and Vermonter posted. I, too, would trust my life with either of the two P-64's that I own. And, as was adeptly pointed out by Bzinggg, the P-64 was the standard enforcement weapoin in Poland for years.

That said, I tend to think that a pistol the size of a Walther PPK or a P-64 is about the very minimum that you can draw on someone and be fairly sure that it will intimidate that person. I am not speaking about ballistics or mag capacity. I think that the P-64 is a good choice in that area. I guess I might wonder if being in your line of work that a 'bigger' gun like a 1911 being pulled would actually make it a little bit less necessary to have to use it.

There are, I am sure many on this forum who have had a good deal of experience in this area, who could speak to this, and I hope that they will.

For a private citizen just out and about (CCW), the P-64 is my prime choice, except when the weather down here gets so hot and sticky that I have to revert to a Kel-Tec. The CCW citizen almost always has some element of surprise, in that the evil-doer is not expecting an armed citizen. But I don't know if I would prefer either of them (except as a backup) if I were in an enforcement situation where I might have to draw on someone and need the 'intimidation' factor of a larger gun, to perhaps prevent a gunfight.

You know your situation best. If you do want to go to a larger, reliable weapon that is light weight, and relatively inexpensive, the Ruger P series polymer in 9mm comes to mind. There are a host of othes out there, of similar configuration that are not as pricey as the Glock.

Other than the possible "intimidation factor" I can assure you that the P-64 won't let you down, and you may want to strongly consider carrying a backup gun, anyway. Sorry to hear about your injury. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by qarlo » January 31st, 2007, 6:35 pm

Well first off I'd like to thank EVERYONE who chimed in, and thanks for the warm welcome. I decided to head over to the gun store my family has done business with since 1974, and picked up my own P-64 as of earlier this afternoon, as seen in my updated avatar of me holding it. So far as I can tell, there isn't any regulation that states a "duty weapon" HAS to be 4inches or more, thus with an Uncle Mikes No.1 LV II style holster, I'm going to field myself with it... all 3.33 inch barrel and all. I figure if someone has a problem with it they'll let me know, and under my circumstances I can't see the PSC (Private Security Contractor) having an issue with it. They know I'm dependable and a above average shot.

It's really great to have found this little gem, and to have found this forum community, and again thank you all for the input. I've also learned something from this thread too... and that is that apparently Texas is the only (so it seems) state that refers to a PDW being concealed as a C.H.L. for "Concealed Handgun License" since most of you have refered to that manner of carrying a CCW; and to be honest I had never seen that acronymn for it before. I may well end up in the long run fielding with a IAI Jericho 941 in .45ACP, but for now I've decided to indeed use the P-64 as my duty weapon. Though I do see what some of you were saying about today's perps and probably being better off with the larger calibers (especially for intimidation factor), I've never really had a problem for the differing posts I work, be it Construction sites or rowdy government housing & apartment complexes where a more active CRE [Contractee Regulation Enforcement] is expected.

Again thanks and I look forward to more discussions with the rest of you. Is there an "Unrelated" or "Off Topics" section on these forums for chit chat about everything else in life, or is the P-64 community specifically targeted on the subject at hand? I ask because in the past it's nice to get to actually get to know others is all.

PEACE OUT.
Last edited by qarlo on January 31st, 2007, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by grayfox » January 31st, 2007, 6:42 pm

Best of luck. I retired to Tennessee and do a lil security work in knoxville. I,m just really getting use to my P-64. Here is a target that I shot today at 7 yds, using Hornady HP/S&B/silver bear. It all shoots great. ( well I can't figger how to post a pic, but it shoots great
Last edited by grayfox on February 1st, 2007, 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by duggi60 » January 31st, 2007, 7:26 pm

Qarlo welcome to you on this great forum. Carrying a weapon
for defense on a security type job is very similar to when I
carried while working 27 years in the New York state courts, we
both know the limits as per our state's use of deadly physical
force. Most folks out there are a lot more careful if they see a
firearm being carried by someone on the job. Its a good choice
purchasing a P64,like all handguns going to the range often is
your best ally.

Enjoy -- ;D

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by grayfox » February 1st, 2007, 12:55 am

Image
Finially got the pic up..Thanks Papabear!
Last edited by grayfox on February 1st, 2007, 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by devlinfaust » February 1st, 2007, 10:53 am

Nice group, grayfox! Nice target too, where do you get targets like those?

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qarlo
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The P-64 as a *duty weapon* ? Advice Please:

Post by qarlo » February 1st, 2007, 10:57 pm

Nice Pic grayfox, not to mention some nice shooting. The day I hit the range and fired my first P-64 I had left my man style targets at home and all my father had with him was the animal type... I'm curious to see the difference in my "grouping" patterns with the P-64 in a PSO regimented Shoot to Stop discipline versus the Hunting type.

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