Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigger!

[Ketchman]

I believe that notch that Peewee is talking about is the same thing as the 1/2 cock notch on the 1911, enough forward (read towards the firing pin) will make it jump the notch and strike the pin, which is why it is not regarded as safe.

[Tad Powle]

Just got back from the range, and just for laughs I tested my pistol with live ammo. Right about the third time I dropped the hammer with my finger off the trigger, the half-cock notch failed me and the gun went off.

I also found out why you want to test this with primed cases instead of live ammo. With live ammo, when the gun goes off, the slide comes back and gives your thumb (the one you pulled the hammer back with) a right smart spanking for being a dumb-ass.

Safety on is the rule. (Unless you do that cool hammer-bob job.)

[Retiredmajor]

If you think you're going to need a fast shot, you should just avoid the area all together. Seriously, there isn't a training organization in the country who trains or advocates that you carry an unloaded gun. The instant you need it, you'll bobble the slide due to stress or forget to chamber a round or not have time to chamber a round as someone is choking the s**t out of you. Bad strategy.

[Curly1]

It comes down to don't use the safety at your own risk.

I use my snubbie on those days I don't want to deal with the mechanics.

[normsutton]

for once and for all there is not a half cock position on a P-64,

NORM

[Tad Powle]

good point, Norm.

Anyone know the correct name for this notch in the hammer?

[fully machined]

The name is zqb zabezp or roughly translated "security tooth."

[juniustaylor]

It really just seems like a sear catch to keep the hammer from hitting the firing pin in case the full cock failed and allowed the hammer to drop. However, I'd say with 90+ some percent of these pistols it doesn't work that way. Mine has no real wear and it will still hit the firing pin if I pull the hammer back part way and release it (basically what happened in the story when the hammer caught on something and was pulled back). I wouldn't trust it. That's why I like my bobbed hammer, and I would suspect a rounded hammer would be safe(er) as well. That hammer has a lot of neat markings on it. Don't think mine has any but one.

[dfunk]

I think it's there to catch the hammer if it's dropped without the slide on the gun, but that's just me.

[surfzombie]

I carry my P64 inside my pocket loaded with one in the pipe and safety on. I feel like if I ever needed it I would have enough time to reach in my pocket and releqase the safety before I even had to draw my weapon. I guess it all depends on the situation your facing.

[RJR573]

Hello everyone.

Scary story and photo. Glad it missed your leg and foot.

I recently bought a 1976 model and see what you guys are talking about where the hammer can be pushed slightly farther forward when the trigger is held to the rear and then once the trigger is let go the hammer will move back slightly and click. That seems like it should block the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled to the rear but it does'nt.

I put a Bic pen in the barrel and pointed it twords the ceiling. When I release the hammer from 1/2 to 3/4 of the way back the pen jumps quite a bit and sometimes all the way out of the barrel. This was done without touching the trigger.

Most newer D/A pistols ( and striker fired too ) wont do this cause they have a firing pin block in the slide which stops the pin from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled to the rear. My Beretta 92, CZ-75, Spfld. 1911, and several others have a true 1/4 to 1/2 cock notch that actually holds the hammer away from the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

I have plenty other small guns and did not buy the P64 as a carry piece so it's a non-issue for me.

[tlandon]

If you think you're going to need a fast shot, you should just avoid the area all together. Seriously, there isn't a training organization in the country who trains or advocates that you carry an unloaded gun. The instant you need it, you'll bobble the slide due to stress or forget to chamber a round or not have time to chamber a round as someone is choking the s**t out of you. Bad strategy.

Right on Major. In my opinion carry with one in pipe, cocked for DA, safety off. When the time comes that you need the weapon you should only have to draw and squeeze the trigger. If you have to rack or disengage safetys, you could be dead. In armed security work I have done, SOP. You have no idea when or where a threat will come and how you will react. Just my .02. Thanks.

[tai]

As a leftie/southpaw and new owner- this area is naturally of concern to me more than it would be to a right-handed shooter.

This is one of the reasons all Sigs, most CZ's, most 1911s do not interest me, due to safety and/or decocker only on left side of the weapon.

It really is a PITA for lefties and why, excepting this firearm, all my handguns either have no safety/decocker or they have an ambidextrous one.

I really like this little gun and if I were carrying it loaded it would have to be with the safety OFF with round in chamber (Condition 2) no doubt about it for me (if I were right-handed I would consider carry with safety ON).

Mine is a 1969 with a rounded hammer.

WADR, this thread is ambiguous to me and I've safety-checked my firearm using the pen trick.

No issue with the decocker and the pen, no issue with the pen definitely jumping out of the muzzle when pulling trigger fully DA or in SA mode. (I'm using just a pen REFILL very similar to a 'Cross' type of refill with its black 'handle' resting on firing pin area), pen jumps out of muzzle up to 10 foot ceiling and HITS IT it in both DA and SA modes when trigger is pulled.

As others have stated, I do believe that my firearm (YMMV) has a position similar to a quarter or half-cock position to prevent ignition. Came to this conclusion by merely pulling hammer back with thumb to fully-cocked position, and easing hammer forward while simultaneously pulling trigger, then releasing trigger and letting hammer fall. (It reminds me of a CZ-75b lowering hammer on a live round-but, agreed, does not have the hammer block or transfer bar or whatever the CZ has, so I believe a direct and very strong blow from THERE might cause a discharge.

However, checking the hammer position after a DECOCK and then RELEASE of safety there is a bounce or spring to the hammer when pushing it forward, and it does seem to raise the pen refill slightly. I don’t know if that would be enough for gun to discharge with hammer down safety OFF in a fall.

Interestingly, if I cock back hammer just a hair, it goes into that 'locked' quarter-cocked position.

I don't know what to make of it.

WADR to OP, I think this thread from the outset and the reason the discharge occurred may be subject to further analysis/interpretation. I do thank the OP for bringing this to our attention.

There may have been numerous causes-e.g. gun cocked in SA mode, forgot to decock, hair trigger, bad sear, etc.. I am not an expert nor a gunsmith and do not claim to have any special knowledge, nor am I wishing to point blame-I just want to see if it’s relatively safe for a southpaw to carry gun in Condition 2 with safety OFF.

At least on mine, hammer 'falls' on that quarter-cock position (for lack of a better description) and the pen refill does not move at all when gently or abruptly lowering hammer after releasing trigger first and then letting go of hammer.

The manual I downloaded from this site indicates as to Safeties- a manual safety, trigger bar block, and firing pin block. If accurate, I still don't know what to make of it, or to interpret what they represent.

Any informative and accurate (hopefully) input would be appreciated.

[losingle]

Although I carry with the safety engaged, my 1974 p-64 firing pin will not strike the pencil erasure without the trigger being pulled. Testing with hammer back rite before it locks up into sa and releasing the firing pin does not strike the erasure of the pencil. Confusing isn't it.

[tai]

To the contrary, and seems to indicate that it may indeed be safe to carry without safety engaged, at least on yours and mine.

This is an instance where being right-handed can mean the difference between being safe and being not so safe if one is left-handed.

I am going to re-read some posts by OP and others. I seem to recall that OP went out and tested his gun and the results were not good-but that may just be his firearm and parts. It may be defective-I don't know, but I am not yet convinced that it is UNSAFE to carry Condition 2, and lots of people on this forum seem to carry that way.

It might be his gun alone. Also, there's always the issue if gun drops square on its muzzle without safety engaged-what effect that might have.