Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigger!

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hookedonsks
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Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigger!

Post by hookedonsks » November 12th, 2011, 1:10 pm

I don't post here much, but lurk quite a bit. I figure this is worth sharing.

I've CCW'ed my P-64 for almost four years. Carried with round in chamber, safety off, in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. Long DA trigger pull, got it in a holster, trigger always covered. Figured I was as safe as they come.

Frequently moving in and out of CCW prohibited areas during the day, I must have taken the holstered weapon in and out of my pocket over a thousand times while sitting in the front seat of the car.

The (correction: hammer) spur evidently caught on my pocket as I was putting it in my pocket, retracted the hammer 1/2 to 3/4 of the way, and then released it onto the firing pin.

Image

The holster kept the barrel from being aligned with my thigh and it was angled away from my foot. Though the pants and the floor of the car it went!

Image

Image

Yes:
1. I am very lucky.
2. I am very grateful.
3. I feel very stupid.

That's all I've got to say.
Last edited by hookedonsks on November 12th, 2011, 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Curly1
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Curly1 » November 12th, 2011, 2:28 pm

You ARE very lucky and that's why they call it a safety but you have to use it.
Laugh Hard and Often.

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dfunk
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by dfunk » November 12th, 2011, 2:30 pm

hookedonsks wrote:I don't post here much, but lurk quite a bit. I figure this is worth sharing.

I've CCW'ed my P-64 for almost four years. Carried with round in chamber, safety off, in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. Long DA trigger pull, got it in a holster, trigger always covered. Figured I was as safe as they come.

Frequently moving in and out of CCW prohibited areas during the day, I must have taken the holstered weapon in and out of my pocket over a thousand times while sitting in the front seat of the car.

The trigger spur evidently caught on my pocket as I was putting it in my pocket, retracted the hammer 1/2 to 3/4 of the way, and then released it onto the firing pin.

The holster kept the barrel from being aligned with my thigh and it was angled away from my foot. Though the pants and the floor of the car it went!

Yes:
1. I am very lucky.
2. I am very grateful.
3. I feel very stupid.

That's all I've got to say.
Yes, you are very lucky. I'm glad you're okay. If the trigger was always covered, then it would have no opportunity to 'snag' on anything. This is where it all went wrong, I think. Again, glad you're okay. Time to regroup and rethink...

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The Only Sarge
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by The Only Sarge » November 12th, 2011, 3:50 pm

Glad your good man. Re-think your carry for that particular gun and get back in the saddle.
Thank you for posting...all of us need a wake up call sometimes and go through our carry habits and rethink it all from time to time.

Bet it scared the crap out of you :)

sixgun
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by sixgun » November 12th, 2011, 4:39 pm

Thanks for letting us know. Someone recently posted a incident where they dropped theirs on the floor and it discharged going into the ceiling just missing their head.
With the safety off nothing is blocking the firing pin. A drop, hit or snag to the hammer may be enough to cause the firing pin to hit against the primer setting it off.
I keep my safety on unless I'm in a threat zone. I'm glad you are OK, thanks again for letting us know. You coming forward could save a life....

Legally Armed
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by Legally Armed » November 12th, 2011, 4:50 pm

You did it wrong. But you know that. When I remove a pocket gun from my pocket, the gun stays in the holster, and both come out at the same time. That would've prevented your AD.

hookedonsks
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by hookedonsks » November 12th, 2011, 5:38 pm

dfunk wrote: Yes, you are very lucky. I'm glad you're okay. If the trigger was always covered, then it would have no opportunity to 'snag' on anything. This is where it all went wrong, I think. Again, glad you're okay. Time to regroup and rethink...
Legally Armed wrote:You did it wrong. But you know that. When I remove a pocket gun from my pocket, the gun stays in the holster, and both come out at the same time. That would've prevented your AD.
The trigger was always completely covered and the weapon never left the holster. A fact which greatly contributed to my surprise. :shock:

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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by mjmelland » November 12th, 2011, 9:49 pm

The P-64 is not alone in that it can experiene an AD in that manner. Many single action semi-autos share(d) that attribute. You are indeed lucky... a femoral artery hit would likely be fatal... not to mention the family jewels ;-)

roblox84
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by roblox84 » November 12th, 2011, 11:54 pm

Man that's some scary shit.

hookedonsks
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by hookedonsks » November 13th, 2011, 12:08 am

I just pulled some bullets from both Silver Bear HP and Wolf Military Classic and conducted a test with primer-only cases.

With the safety off (red = fire), all four of my P-64's, a 1972 rounded hammer spur, 2 1974's, and a 1976 will discharge if the hammer is pulled back 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and then released.

All weapons have the original springs - no modifications.

Safety on for me from now on - although there is a hammerless J-Frame .38 in my pocket right now. :oops:

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manicmechanic
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by manicmechanic » November 13th, 2011, 7:13 am

hookedonsks glad you're OK and thanks for posting this info. I carry mine in the same holster, but with safety on.

tomconpsk
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by tomconpsk » November 14th, 2011, 11:38 pm

first post to the group as a new p-64 mak owner. just came across this thread.

pistols of this time period and earlier dont have transfer bars as I have recently learned. the transfer bar on newer model handguns will ensure that the firing pin will only work if the trigger it pulled (ensuring that the gun will not discharge just by half-cocking the hammer)

obviously, as you have proven p-64s do not have this so they ARE NOT drop safe. (you can determine if your pistol has a transfer bar or not by inserting a pen down the barrel, pointing the gun up and cocking the hammer most of the way and letting go. If the pen jumps, no transfer mechanism if it doesnt there probably is. would try a few times)

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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by peewee102 » November 15th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Maybe there's an issue with the pistol. I tried the pen in the barrel and pulling the trigger and the pen jumped. I then pulled the hammer back with the pen in and released it without using the trigger and it didn't jump. I then tried this on my pistol. With an empty chamber and slide forward, pull the hammer back and hold it. While holding the hammer back, pull the trigger back and hold it. Then ease the hammer forward and then push the hammer toward the slide and hold it. Note how far forward the hammer is. While still pushing forward on the hammer, release the trigger. Then slowly release pressure on the hammer. As the hammer comes back, it clicks. Then when I push the hammer forward with the tigger released, the hammer doesn't go forward enough to hit the firing pin. In theory! I didn't have a primed case to verify it really wouldn't go off. Or try it with the slide off and you can see it better. Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

frankmako
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by frankmako » November 15th, 2011, 8:26 pm

you got some good luck. well at taht time you did. glad you did not get hurt.

rodger58
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Re: Another way the P-64 can discharge w/o pulling the trigg

Post by rodger58 » November 17th, 2011, 11:38 pm

I'm with PeeWee102 on this.
My 1976 P64 will not strike the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

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