stover wrote:In the US, we expect LE to shoot. Not the same in Europe, especially during the cold war.
I was in the UK 2 years years ago and most Patrol Officers are still unarmed. They wear stab vest and carry night sticks.
Britain isn't Poland.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out how to save money with inexpensive alternatives that work just as well."
Yep, but I've never lived or worked in Poland. I have in the UK and Germany.
The lawman with a white hat and six guns blazing is a uniquely American thing. I think we as a culture place more value on a pistol that others do. I assume that is why foreign countries have issued P64's, Makarovs, PPKs, Nagants, Nambus and numerous other designs an American would think is ill suited to the tasks of a service pistol.
The tokarev was flawed (a sao without condition 1 ability) but the p64 was not a good replacement as a service pistol. Its a concealed carry gun not a military arm. Add in the original 71 grain polish round was akin to a .32 auto in power, unlike modern mak ammo thats better than .380.
That said im glad the poles made it and cant wait till it arrives at my ffl!
An officer's pistol was intended to shoot deserting or unruly soldiers. So it had to be close quarter.
A smart officer carries a common rifle so that they do not stand out to a sniper.
I've read that European police practice is to shoot offenders in the legs. Most Europeans do not carry a concealed firearm so Police will not have to incapacitate someone who may shoot back at them. A 32 ACP or 380 ACP does a fine job.
Most American police officers tend to shoot to incapacitate or kill so they carry a much more potent firearm than a 380 ACP. Probably because many American violent criminals, who would shoot a police officer, can be expected to have a concealed firearm.
I don't go by cost, but demonstrated reputation. My Makarov that I bought in 1994 was known to be super reliable and accurate. I paid $150 for it new. Still have it.
I researched the P-64 a bunch before I bought it, and like the Makarov before it, it is my CCW gun.
A reliable and accurate gun doesn't have to cost $600-$1500.
Foo Bird wrote:I don't go by cost, but demonstrated reputation. My Makarov that I bought in 1994 was known to be super reliable and accurate. I paid $150 for it new. Still have it.
I researched the P-64 a bunch before I bought it, and like the Makarov before it, it is my CCW gun.
A reliable and accurate gun doesn't have to cost $600-$1500.
true, but the extremely low prices of the 9x18 pistols are basically subsidized by governments that no longer exist. i think a new production makarov made in the US would probably cost $400-$500.
true, but the extremely low prices of the 9x18 pistols are basically subsidized by governments that no longer exist. i think a new production makarov made in the US would probably cost $400-$500.
true, but the extremely low prices of the 9x18 pistols are basically subsidized by governments that no longer exist. i think a new production makarov made in the US would probably cost $400-$500.
If they made em, I'd buy one or two also.
why, when you can get like new bulgarians for $230, and like new east germans for a little over $300? we'd be lucky if new production maks in the US were even as good as the bulgies, let alone the east germans.
stover wrote:I dream of a Polymer framed, double stack Mak with a life time warrantee.
I recall someone trying to wildcat a 9x18 Mak into a Kel Tec P11 frame.
Should be doable. Just need a new bbl, different recoil spring, and maybe tweaks to the mag. I know for a fact one gent was shooting .380ACP out of a P11 that he reduced the recoil spring on (he was just letting it headspace on the extractor and he knew the risks).
I also saw some folks wanting to do the same thing to the P3AT, but I think that the 9x18 Mak round is too much for that platform.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out how to save money with inexpensive alternatives that work just as well."
Looked at those options before too. P3AT barrel walls are so thin shooting .380 scares me a bit. P-11 might be a good option to convert but I never took any action to do so. I was hoping to get a 9x18 Kevin barrel and a Baby Desert Eagle, but Magnum Research tells me they have modified the pistol enough that it wouldn't work.
So, I've decided to wait. With more companies producing domestic 9x18mm ammo, I hope someone will eventually give it a go. If not, I sure like shooting my D.D.R. not a bad pistol to be "stuck" with .
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