What were they thinking?

[Legally Armed]

Anyone ever wonder what they were thinking when they designed the P-64? I don't mean this in a bad way, as I rather like my P-64's, but... They wanted a duty pistol in 9x18, and basing 9x18 pistols off the PP was the thing to do, but since a PP is clearly way too big for a duty gun (uh, wut?), they shrunk it down some and made the P-64.

The P-64 is about the size of the current subcompact single stack 9mm's, which is to say pretty small. Why purposely go with such a small size and sacrifice capacity in a duty pistol?

For US collectors in the know, it was nice they did so, because they have provided us with an all steel quality subcompact for carry that any joe can afford, but for it's intended purpose, I don't quite get it.

[superferrite]

I have wondered the same thing. Warsaw Pact thinking, I suppose.

The thirties Radom is such a great service pistol!
I can only imagine that Soviet "help" strongly suggested that the 9X18 be adopted, and hence the smaller pistol.

[Byrd]

I would tend to agree. I think that Europeans think differently than Westerners. These were probably issued to officers, not necessarily as a "combat" weapon but as a means to be armed, even if not needed. Americans have always preferred larger calibers, Europeans smaller calibers. I just bought my first P-64 to use as a carry weapon, but I had resisted getting one for a while because of the size issue. My primary carry is a Kahr PM9 which is smaller, lighter, carries the same amount of rounds, but is in a 9MM with night sights. Ammo is more readily available, the round more potent, the trigger is sweet.

That being said I wonder what I was thinking! I will lighten the trigger with new springs, order hollow points for it, get a decent holster, and shoot a few hundred round through it to make sure it is 100% and carry it!

Why? The Kahr I have $600 in and after all that I will have less than $200 in the P-64, so I will not feel bad if the P-64 gets scratched, dropped etc. I will probably never have to use it, but if I do it should serve it's intended purpose, which it what the Poles designed it to do in the first place.

I like it!

[budliteguy]

Another thing to remember is God forbid you did ever have to use your carry gun
That $200 gun would be better. Because the police will take your gun and you will not get it back until after the investigation/ and or trial. So it could be a long time until you see that weapon again and it will be in police storage in a sealed bag, Hopefully.
So which would be better a $200 gun in police storage or your $600 Kahr.
P-64's make a wise investment for a CCW weapon
Myself I was carrying a commander size .45 in a IWB holster, but now I carry my P-64 in a leather pocket holster, with loose fitting big pocket cargo pants you can not tell I'm carrying at all.
Most Soviet block country's issue guns are more or less officer issued and just a "Badge of Authority" type deal. They can be used but are carried more than shot. Thats why most are in such good shape. Good for us C&R holders.

[Legally Armed]

Another thing to remember is God forbid you did ever have to use your carry gun
That $200 gun would be better. Because the police will take your gun and you will not get it back until after the investigation/ and or trial. So it could be a long time until you see that weapon again and it will be in police storage in a sealed bag, Hopefully.
So which would be better a $200 gun in police storage or your $600 Kahr.
P-64's make a wise investment for a CCW weapon

eh, i get the line of reasoning, but how much is your life worth to you? if i had to shoot to defend my life and basically lost the gun i used to the cops, i honestly think the last thing i'd be caring about was the cost of the gun. i can always make more money, buy a new gun; i can't return from the dead.

where this line of cost effective reasoning works is for a gun you leave in your car. let's say your employer is not gun friendly (thankfully, mine is, and carrying at work is allowed), but you regularly go various places before going home after work. NOW it makes sense to leave a cheaper carry pistol like a p-64 in your car while at work to carry after, so that if your car is broken into while there, at least you're not out a large sum of money. i used to leave a pa-63 in my glovebox as an extra basically, since i've always got a carry gun on me, until a friend sold me a kel-tec p11 he didn't want for $50. now the kel-tec is on glovebox duty. i think i'd almost laugh if it was stolen -- it's a piece of junk and was only $50. who cares? (it works reliably though, otherwise it wouldn't be there).

rationally, a kahr pm9 is a better carry weapon. same capacity, more powerful round, much greater variety of carry ammo choices, lighter, a bit smaller, better sights. the only real advantage i can see to the p-64 is that 6 of your 7 shots will be with the excellent SA trigger, while all 7 shots with a kahr will be with the DA trigger.

however, rationally, a new mustang is a better car than a 1965 mustang. doesn't mean it's cooler to drive or more fun. carrying comm bloc stuff when you can afford "better" is kind of like driving a classic mustang when you can afford a new one. you do it because you enjoy the older item.

[Byrd]

Actually my line of thinking is that for the money the p-64 is an excellent weapon. It is very well made, but with a for sure European influence. If it were to be produced today by one of the big manufacturers think what the price would be!

You are correct, the Kahr is a better weapon, designed for it's primary use of deep concealment, but the P-64 will do the same job, somewhat less effectively.

Carry is a concern, as I work for the local public school district, and they are NOT gun friendly, so my weapon is locked in the truck most of the day, so your point of which one to loose is valid. I like your point of the "cool" factor of carrying a commie gun!

I bet when the Poles designed the P-64 they had no idea that 30 years later Americans would be carrying them for self defense!

[stover]

I had a $1300 Kimber 1911 stolen out of my car while I was at court. Police recovered it 18 months later, in similar condition to when it was stolen. It was in the wasteband of a crack dealer's pants in Denver.
I haven't carried a gun that cost more than $400 since. I love and trust my milsup pistols--as much or more than guns I've carried in the past that cost much more.

[Byrd]

I would be UPSET if I lost my Kimber...it is my "watch this" pistol! At least the druggie didn't tear up your pistol!

So what were the Poles thinking whrn they designed the P-64? To design a well made reliable, concealabe weapon to arm Americans with!

[budliteguy]

There is no doubt the Kahr is a far better arm, But a good working P64 will will fit the bill just as good. Most civilian shootings are at less than 2 yards. That is close. The big question is how well are you trained with your weapon of choice and can you pull the trigger on another human being. It does not matter what you carry!!!! If you fail at either of these 2 things you are the loser. If you decide to carry a weapon for self defense you need to know how to shoot and clear malfunctions from that weapon. Just shooting a box of shells every month through it does not cut it. I was just expressing what will happen in the aftermath of a civilian involved shooting. If that Kahr or whatever you carry is the only gun you have to carry. You will be without a weapon for an un-determend amount of time. So Investing in a cheaper good working gun is sound advice.
P-64 fits that real well, I think better than a Kel-tec or any of the cheaper made small automatic compact guns on the market today. At least the P-64 is not made out of "plastic" If you have to hit a punk upside the head it will hurt more.

[stover]

I don't think the Poles planned for their Officers to ever use the pistol in anger. SImilar to the German's with their PP and PPKs.

[Hinermad]

A disarmed civilian is outgunned by even a .380, so I imagine the Poles didn't feel much need to arm their police and military officers with anything a lot bigger. Of course their Russian friends were on hand to suggest a cartridge that was conveniently manufactured in Russia.

Dave

[Legally Armed]

Actually my line of thinking is that for the money the p-64 is an excellent weapon. It is very well made, but with a for sure European influence. If it were to be produced today by one of the big manufacturers think what the price would be!

You are correct, the Kahr is a better weapon, designed for it's primary use of deep concealment, but the P-64 will do the same job, somewhat less effectively.

Carry is a concern, as I work for the local public school district, and they are NOT gun friendly, so my weapon is locked in the truck most of the day, so your point of which one to loose is valid. I like your point of the "cool" factor of carrying a commie gun!

I bet when the Poles designed the P-64 they had no idea that 30 years later Americans would be carrying them for self defense!

oh, no doubt the p-64 is an excellent gun, period. the fact they're currently so cheap makes them that much better... and yeah, there is a definite cool factor to carrying one.

i think the soviets would be rolling over in their graves knowing that all their stuff has been sold off to americans

[lklawson]

My primary carry is a Kahr PM9 which is smaller, lighter, carries the same amount of rounds, but is in a 9MM with night sights. Ammo is more readily available, the round more potent, the trigger is sweet.

P64 vs PF9

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[lklawson]

I don't think the Poles planned for their Officers to ever use the pistol in anger. SImilar to the German's with their PP and PPKs.

The P64 was also issued to Police and Security Officers. "Anger" or not, LEOs are definitely expected to shoot.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[stover]

In the US, we expect LE to shoot their pistols. Not the same in Europe, especially during the cold war.
I was in the UK 2 years years ago and most Patrol Officers are still unarmed. They wear stab vest and carry night sticks. Armed security/LE carry MP5s.
I think Europeans view / have viewed pistols as more of a status symbol. SMG and Rifles are for real work. Hard to speak for a whole continent but they definitely have different views.