Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

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Makarov-
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Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by Makarov- » April 6th, 2011, 7:49 pm

I'm currently working private security. And while we can't CCW in an official capacity the argument came up by a "superior" a while back that I couldn't carry my P-64 as a duty weapon in an official armed capacity.

When I asked him why he said "Because that pistol is not approved for law enforcement use. Not here ... not anywhere."

My reply was simply "Then ... what was the fashionable Warsaw cop carrying in the late sixties and early seventies, a squirt gun?!"

Another supervisor walked in just in time to hear this and just busted up laughing. Needless to say there were no further objections. Unfortunately I still haven't had the opportunity to carry my P-64 in an official capacity as yet.

The guy didn't like me, didn't like "Commie Guns" especially Makarovs, didn't understand my preference for them, and probably doesn't like himself much either. But that's not my problem. Just thought I'd share this amusing lil story with y'all.
Repeal mandatory health insurance purchase language in the health care bill. Fines/jail are for criminal or civil misconduct. Insurance isn't a tax. By forcing this you betray public trust, ignore your constitution oaths, & are party to extortion.

wyo-man
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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by wyo-man » April 7th, 2011, 8:07 pm

A lot of history was written with 9mm Mak calibers.

wyo-man

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by cls12vg30 » April 8th, 2011, 10:52 am

Several years ago I bought a T-shirt from Makarov.com, with a picture of a PM, and the words "9mm Makarov: KGB tested and approved." in a font that looks vaguely Cyrillic. It's dark humor, certainly, given how many innocent people got 9x18's to the back of the head courtesy of the KGB.

Makarov-
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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by Makarov- » April 8th, 2011, 5:09 pm

True, the KGB and the E.G. Stasi did use that method of execution. It is quite possible that Maks here might have stained pedigrees. But the highest percentage of them that were in use by those two organizations were used by border guards envoys escorts couriers training and other duties that didn't necessarily involve cold blooded murder.


I'd say that the liklihood that any given Makarov in circulation here in the US actually was used in any true notoriety is extremely low. Just my opinion.
Repeal mandatory health insurance purchase language in the health care bill. Fines/jail are for criminal or civil misconduct. Insurance isn't a tax. By forcing this you betray public trust, ignore your constitution oaths, & are party to extortion.

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by doc83 » June 23rd, 2011, 11:00 pm

Mak, I carry Springfield on duty, & qualify with a Glock, a S&W & a Ruger for off-duty carry. Maybe 3 of us (70-member dept) also qualify with a 9x18 Mak as a backup/off-duty piece. If someone wants to qualify with a CZ-82, P-64 or a Mak as their off-duty weapon, I let 'em do it. Here's how I look at it: some serious Polish military & police guys evaluated some pistols and settled on the P-64 as their weapon. Sure, it doesn't have S&W's fine blue finish, but you pull the trigger & it goes bang. Sure, the 9x18 is a little under-powered, and the 64's 6-round mag is a little light, but I practice with it, carry good hollow points, and I hit what I aim at. I'm very comfortable with my P-64. You carry yours, and tell the so-called experts to go pound sand.

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by michaelap » June 27th, 2011, 4:03 pm

Makarov-
Unless things have changed rather recently, OPOTC says you may carry only what you qualified with. Have you qualified under OPOTC with 9x18?

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by GeneCC » July 25th, 2011, 8:32 pm

Makarov- wrote:The guy didn't like me, didn't like "Commie Guns" especially Makarovs, didn't understand my preference for them, and probably doesn't like himself much either. But that's not my problem. Just thought I'd share this amusing lil story with y'all.
With the right ammunition a Makarov can put a hurting on someone.

Gene

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by gwbiker » July 26th, 2011, 12:14 am

GeneCC wrote:
Makarov- wrote:The guy didn't like me, didn't like "Commie Guns" especially Makarovs, didn't understand my preference for them, and probably doesn't like himself much either. But that's not my problem. Just thought I'd share this amusing lil story with y'all.
With the right ammunition a Makarov can put a hurting on someone.

Gene
Along with amazing accuracy at 21' from my 1960 DDR 9X18 Makarov.

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by GeneCC » August 6th, 2011, 8:45 am

cls12vg30 wrote:Several years ago I bought a T-shirt from Makarov.com, with a picture of a PM, and the words "9mm Makarov: KGB tested and approved." in a font that looks vaguely Cyrillic. It's dark humor, certainly, given how many innocent people got 9x18's to the back of the head courtesy of the KGB.
A lot more probably got shot with TT-33s and Mosin-Nagant Revolvers. The NKVD were on a tear in the 1920s and 1930s. By the 1960s and beyond the Soviet State wasn't purging. They used other methods to keep people in line.

People still got shot but not in the assembly line fashion. At least that's what I've been told by Ex-Pats.

Here's an example of how they used to do stuff.... (some nudity, maybe crude language, incredible violence)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRfY8CwjXvY




I work with a former Soviet Air Force officer. His opinion of the Makarov is, "If you're a peaceful person you'll like the Makarov. You can't hurt anyone with it.".

He later told me that in discussions with his colleagues that the consensus was that the Makarov was "good for shooting yourself in the head" and that "we thought it was a weak pistol".

Last week I showed him a Critical Defense round in 9x18mm. I said, "These are popular in the US because they manage clothing well". He looked at it for a few moments, said "Cool" and then reminded me that he wasn't impressed with the Makarov.

No kidding - the Soviets issued Makarovs with FMJ rounds.

Most handguns aren't serious weapons. They're what you carry when you can't have a rifle or shotgun. Compared to an AK-74 the Makarov isn't going to be very potent. Compared to a 25 ACP or 32 ACP the Makarov is a fine.

Gene

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by gwbiker » August 6th, 2011, 6:07 pm

Most handguns aren't serious weapons. They're what you carry when you can't have a rifle or shotgun.
According to the FBI, more people have been killed by a .22 bullet.

Ask a large city hospital ER doctor/nurse about their treatment of a GSW victim with a .22 bullet lodged SOMEWHERE inside him.

IMHO, never underestimate a small caliber handgun, particularly a .22.

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by sixgun » August 6th, 2011, 8:01 pm

9x18 is just as bad at close range as 9x19. I use silver bear...

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by GeneCC » August 6th, 2011, 8:40 pm

gwbiker wrote:
Most handguns aren't serious weapons. They're what you carry when you can't have a rifle or shotgun.
According to the FBI, more people have been killed by a .22 bullet.

Ask a large city hospital ER doctor/nurse about their treatment of a GSW victim with a .22 bullet lodged SOMEWHERE inside him.

IMHO, never underestimate a small caliber handgun, particularly a .22.
It's a fair statement. I have a good friend who was gutshot with a 25 ACP. He lost a kidney and still has health issues fifteen years later from that tiny little bullet. When I was eleven my dog, a very large German Shepherd was shot in the head with a 25 acp and died on the spot. A 25 acp isn't that much different from a 22 rimfire out of a handgun.


My point is that for incapacitation a shotgun or rifle will do the job a lot faster than a handgun. To me a handgun is what you use when you can't have a rifle or shotgun nearby.

Gene

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by sixgun » August 7th, 2011, 8:25 am

The reason for 22's is that they are the most popular and in the homes of most Americans. So if 90% of us drove fords, then most car crashes would involve fords.
The 12ga shotgun and .45 were designed for close combat. I think that benchmark still stands..

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by dfunk » August 8th, 2011, 9:46 am

GeneCC wrote:To me a handgun is what you use when you can't have a rifle or shotgun nearby.
Gene
I agree. The only real exception to that rule is the modern ccw'er, whose handgun is their primary weapon. For CC, the P64 is better than nothing, but I greatly prefer the 1911 for practical reasons.

Regarding trauma nurses and .22's, I don't care if the attacker dies in the OR on the table, I want him down after I fire during our violent confrontation. They say 9mm can expand greatly with new ammo technology, but the .45 doesn't shrink. I'm sticking with it.

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Re: Sometimes I just love "experts"/authority figures.

Post by papabear » August 8th, 2011, 10:35 am

+1 dfunk, I couldn't have said it better.

I really like shooting my P'64's and from time to time I still carry one of mine depending on the situation, as for those that call um mouse guns with no stopping power, ask them if they would want to be shot by one.

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