field stripping a bear

[lklawson]

He fought back too. I highly recommend field stripping your gun instead.

Seriously though, I've never, ever, had so much problem removing and then re-seating the slide on one of these class of pistols (PPK derivatives). Took me 15 min. of wiggling and fiddling to get it to unlock and I ended up having to "cheat" by using the edge of a doskocil case to force against the slide while I used my left hand to wiggle the fool thing.

Eventually, I got the slide off, replaced the stock recoil spring with the Wolff which was dramatically longer (3/4" at a guess) and gave the little monster a thorough cleaning because it hadn't been cleaned after the last time its former owner shot it, greased the rails, scrubbed & CLP'ed everything.

Reassembly was another 15 or 20 while I fiddled trying to get the slide to seat back down. Jacking it back and getting it to kinda lock in the right place isn't the hard part. Getting it to seat down in the right lock position is. The web of my right hand is still sore and red this morning and I didn't even shoot the blasted thing.

Heck, replacing the stock hammer spring with the Wolff 18# was a snap and ludicrously easy in comparison.

So, what am I missing here? What's the trick? Do I have to hold it upside down or jiggle it to the left or what? I refuse to believe that this little beast is simply that contrary. It's gotta be something in my disassembly/reassembly technique. 'Cuz if it's not, then I may go back to field stripping bears.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[surfzombie]

Field stripping is a piece of cake for most people. I couple of things you could try or check are.
1. First, clear the weapon and make sure it is empty and remove the magazine.
2. Cock the hammer, pull the trigger guard down and push to one side. Make sue it stays there and doesn't slip back or you'll never get it off.
3. Assuming your right handed. Hold the pistol in your right hand. Firmly grab the slide with your left hand. Pull back all the way and lift up on the rear of the slide and then slowly let it go forward and off under its own spring tension with you holding it so you can control it.
4. Try some upper body or arms excerpts to strengthen you arms and hands because it really is almost a no-brainer. Practice, Practice, Practice.

[lklawson]

I own four other pistols in the Makarov caliber family. All have a field strip method identical to what you have just reiterated.

All are fairly easy to strip and reassemble so I don't think it's my pantie-waist upper body or my girlie-man arms which are causing my problems.

The previous owner also has a preference for Mak caliber and he equally had difficulty stripping this pistol when he had none with his other pistols in this family. We both attributed it to some trick of stripping the P64 that does not exist in the PM, CZ82, PA63, etc.

Any other suggestions?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[surfzombie]

I wonder if it's a miss matched gun? Meaning someone took a bunch of parts and put a pistol together. Do the serial numbers match? You may need to do some fitting or fine tuning. Does it shoot and function fine other than field stripping?

[DoubleTap]

Perhaps there’s something going on with that particular pistol? I have (since Saturday) two of these little beasties, and the take down for both feels about the same. Maybe just a tad harder than my PA-63, but not by much. Just make sure you pull the slide back far enough. If you’ll don’t, they will sort of go together, but not easily. Just tug it back far enough to where you feel like you’re in danger of launching the slide across the room, and you should be good to go.

[lklawson]

I wonder if it's a miss matched gun? Meaning someone took a bunch of parts and put a pistol together. Do the serial numbers match? You may need to do some fitting or fine tuning. Does it shoot and function fine other than field stripping?

I haven't checked the SNs. I'll do that tonight.

Haven't shot it yet. It feels like it cycles fine and the two rounds of ammo that I hand cycled went smoothly but that doesn't always mean anything.

Previous owner came to me with a good referral. Says that it shoots just fine (within known limitations of this pistol) but he also had a bear of a time field stripping it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[lklawson]

Perhaps there’s something going on with that particular pistol? I have (since Saturday) two of these little beasties, and the take down for both feels about the same. Maybe just a tad harder than my PA-63, but not by much. Just make sure you pull the slide back far enough. If you’ll don’t, they will sort of go together, but not easily. Just tug it back far enough to where you feel like you’re in danger of launching the slide across the room, and you should be good to go.

I just finally picked it up yesterday.

I always strip and clean a new-to-me firearm before I take it shooting. Theoretically it helps reduce "surprises."

I'm familiar with "slide launch" on this general family of pistols. On the theory that this might be part of the issue (and because after 5 or 10 min. of holding it back manually your hand gets mighty tired) I used a hard plastic case to force and hold the slide back with. I honestly don't believe "far enough back" is the issue. But I admit I could be wrong.

The takedown is vastly harder than either of my Makarovs, or my PA-63, or my CZ82. Maybe if you decide to stop by for WMA sometime you can see what I mean, unless I figure it out before then.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[PA-Joe]

Did you grind the ends of your new springs flat so that they look like the originals. If you forgot to flatter the ends it makes getting the slide on and off very difficult. If you rotate the recoil spring and watch the end near the frame you can see how it snugs up against the frame.

[lklawson]

Did you grind the ends of your new springs flat so that they look like the originals. If you forgot to flatter the ends it makes getting the slide on and off very difficult. If you rotate the recoil spring and watch the end near the frame you can see how it snugs up against the frame.

No, I didn't flatten them. That might answer the question about betting it back together, but not really about getting it apart in the first place.

It's something to look at, for sure. Thanks.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[PA-Joe]

Maybe someone put the spring in backwards?

[lklawson]

Maybe someone put the spring in backwards?

While I suppose that could be an issue, I'm inclined to think that it wasn't in this case.

I should be a little more specific about the symptoms.

When I attempted to disassemble, I could draw the slide all the way back and it would work the action normally but, even when I forced the slide back by bracing the front of the slide against a solid object, the rear would not lift off of the frame. After much wiggling and fiddling while holding it braced back it finally seemed to find a 'sweet spot' which allowed it to lift off normally. It then traveled freely over the bbl and came off as expected.

I then cleaned and installed the replacement spring. The "tight" end goes on first so that wasn't a big challenge. Then I reversed the process. Again, the slide slipped on over the barrel as expected and I drew it rearward in typical fashion for this family of pistols. The front of the spring did not bind up between the slide and the barrel. I was able to retract the slide all the way to the rear where it would, again, require fiddling over a long period of time until it seemed to finally slip into engagement as normal. Again, I braced the front of the slide against a hard plastic case to ensure that I was pressing the slide as far back as it could go (this after having no success simply using bare hands).

Out of pure frustration, I removed the recoil spring entirely and fit the slide on. Though it went on easier because I was not fighting the spring force the whole time, it still required some jiggling and pushing. I had best success by compressing the top of the slide down on to the frame. As if there was something pushing back up. (No, there was no magazine in the well at the time. I wish it were that easy. )

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[daven]

To some extent this reminds me of the problems that I have with a Walther Model 4. In that particular model, there is a shoulder just under the barrel that the base of the slide has to slip over. there is only one spot that permits it to reassemble. Thus I wonder if there is a raised portion of the frame just under or close to the barrel that might be the cause. The W4 disassembles easily, it is the reassembly that is the problem. This P64 might be a "bear in both directions!". Daven

[PA-Joe]

I just remembered, on one of mine the trigger pin is loose and sometimes it will stick out a fraction of an inch on one side of the frame. Check the pins in the frame to make certain they are all flush. 90% chance that this is the issue on yours.

[lklawson]

I just remembered, on one of mine the trigger pin is loose and sometimes it will stick out a fraction of an inch on one side of the frame. Check the pins in the frame to make certain they are all flush. 90% chance that this is the issue on yours.

Excellent idea. Thanks. I'll check this.

Some googling has found another gent with a similar issue. He believes(ed) that it was related to the locking nubs inside the slide. He believes(ed) that if he stoned/lapped them it would fit better. I'm not going to try it though.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[Legally Armed]

I don't know why this is happening, but I can tell you that I have a Bulgarian Makarov that is a bear to get back together. It comes apart easy, but it takes a good 20-30 tries to go back together. My PA-63 and P-83's all come apart and go back together easy as pie.