I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

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surfzombie
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I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by surfzombie »

After putting 50 rounds down range I have decided not the change out the springs in my P-64. I also have Feg PA-63 that is all stock on the springs as well. I say to Noobs to go out and shoot the pistol first before ordering any springs. I found the recoil was manageable. The DA pull is a bear and takes two fingers but. Whne target shooting I always shoot SA or rapid fire anyway. When you rack the slide you are in SA mode and ready to to. I do concealed but only with a loaded mag and nothing in the chamber so if and when I need it some day I figure I will have enough time to rack the slide. The SA trigger pull in a stock P-64 is very nice. I like to keep my guns stock if I can. If I ever change my mind I may change to the 19# main spring but don't plan on that at this time.
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by Autosurgeon »

A gun with an empty chamber is a paper weight.... just my opinion... Also most gunfights are over in 20 seconds... see how many it takes you to draw and rack...
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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dfunk
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by dfunk »

I agree with you - shoot it stock first, then make the decision. I have all original springs in mine, and I see no reason to swap them.

I also agree with Autosurgeon - an empty gun is useless. Assuming you'll have enough time to chamber a round in an SD situation is silly and naive - you should assume nothing.

My two pennies.
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papabear
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by papabear »

+3 with autosurgeon & DF.
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surfzombie
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by surfzombie »

I understand where you guy's are coming from on the empty chamber thing. If I lived in a rough area I would carry it with one in the pipe. If I open carried it I would do the same and in that case i would put the 19# hammer spring in it. When you conceal carry you in essence have an element of surprise because the BG has no idea you have a gun which is also an argument for your point as well. I certainly don't see it as silly. I may be naive but I am naive with a gun. i just don't feel the need in my rural community to carry loaded.
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by Autosurgeon »

You think that criminals don't target those laid back rural areas?

Learn to trust your firearm and yourself and carry one in the chamber please!

Also the element of surprise thing is over rated due to what I am going to post next... read it and realize where you are in the equation when you have to draw and rack!

The 5-Stages-of-Violent-Crime is an internationally recognized system developed by Marc MacYoung which is utilized by police, military, firearms and self-defense instructors. The system works to outline the process that a criminal works thru before the attack even happens.

The first 3 stages are where effective self-defense awareness training can get you out of trouble. These 3 stages are the setup.

Stage 1 - The Intent

In its simplest form, the Intent is where the criminal is mentally and physically prepared to commit violence. By being able to recognize potential psychological and verbal "tells," your awareness should kick you into a state of orange, or warning mode.

Stage 2 - The Interview

The interview is a criminal process you want to fail. This is the criminal's attempt through verbal interaction to get a sense of you as a potential target. For example, are you too trusting, do you allow him in close, do you exhibit fear in your body language? A sample interview would be asking for directions or the time. How do you react? Your body language and your reaction allows the criminal to decide whether or not you are a suitable target that provides the least amount of resistance. By understanding the various interviews used, your awareness training should again kick you into a state of orange.

Stage 3 - The Positioning

Positioning is simply a fancy word for opportunity. Just like when we discuss the crime triangle, without opportunity, there can be no crime. Opportunity is about the criminal placing himself in a place where he can successfully attack you quickly and effectively. Are you aware of your surroundings? Are you isolated? Do you have an escape route? Can you reach help quickly? Can you draw attention if things go south? Again, all of these are important questions in your awareness plan.

The next two stages are about the act of violence, where your physical self-defense skills may have to be utilized. They also only happen when the above 3 stages work. Meaning, if a criminal can't set you up, he most likely won't attack you.

Stage 4 - The Attack

The criminal has now decided that you are a safe target and is commencing the attack to get what he wants. Your goal in any attack is survival and escape employing whatever verbal or physical self-defense tools you have available to you.

Stage 5 - The Reaction

The reaction is the most dangerous of the five stages. It's how the criminal feels about himself for what he has just done; and how he views your reaction to what he has done. The volatility at this stage can turn a simple assault to a rape to a murder.

The goal of self-defense training is to provide you with the tools that increase your response options and reduce the likelihood that a criminal will identify you as a soft target and reduce the opportunities for attack. The best defense plan is always not being in the situation in the first place.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by darrell »

I believe that the double action will loosen up a little as you fire the gun. I think that the heavy double action is actually a little bit of a safety. However you carry your gun, you should practice drawing it that way. If you carry without one in the tube, be sure you practice drawing that way. How you carry you gun is a personal decision and either way is better than not having one.
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by dfunk »

You can obviously carry in the way that makes you feel comfortable. I think most people that carry this way have a fear of having a loaded gun on their person and the empty chamber gives them some sort of piece of mind. In my opinion (it's free), this helps facilitate complacency, especially when it comes to safety.

Just remember that being in the wrong place at the wrong time is real, bad things can and do happen to good folks everywhere, and if you ever have to draw and fire in one motion, you'd be screwed with an empty chamber. No matter what way you decide on, practice practice practice.
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surfzombie
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by surfzombie »

So if I decide to carry with one in the chamber do you carry it with the safety on or do you just count the stiff DA pull as your safety? What if the gun is dropped in this manner will it go off assuming the safety is off. What about the Makarov or the CZ-82 or the Pa-63? Anyone know for sure which is the safest to carry loaded of those mentioned above?
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by papabear »

I carry concealed, one in the chamber and safety off in all my auto's just as I do for my revolvers and yes the DA on my P-64's is a safety for me. I have doing that for several years along with tons of practice, its all second nature for me. Several years ago all I carried were 1911A1's which are SA, back then I carried in condition "one" 7+1 cocked and locked, simply draw, drop the slide safety and fire all in one motion, but I had to practice the heck out of too. Practice as DF mentioned is "KEY" to carrying in any condition. In CCW mode I also have practiced for years "point shooting' where you don't aim but point and shoot.

Remember, what is comfortable and safe for one is not always comfortable and safe for another, so when you find what works best for you, then practice that method till it becomes second nature to you and continue to practice that ever chance you get because you never know the time or place when you may need it.
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surfzombie
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by surfzombie »

Sound like good advise. Did you change your main spring or is it stock?
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by waltham41 »

surfzombie wrote:So if I decide to carry with one in the chamber do you carry it with the safety on or do you just count the stiff DA pull as your safety? What if the gun is dropped in this manner will it go off assuming the safety is off. What about the Makarov or the CZ-82 or the Pa-63? Anyone know for sure which is the safest to carry loaded of those mentioned above?
I carry my P64 with one in the chamber, the safety off and the hammer NOT cocked. The first shot is the harder DA pull, which helps to prevent an accidential discharge. The pistol has a hammer block that prevents firing if accidentially dropped and the pistol lands on the hammer. The CZ 82 is set up the same way, I THINK that the PA63 lacks the hammer block, but am not 100% sure.
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by buds »

Always carry "one in the pipe." In a life and death situation you have no time to "rack the slide." A LE deputy told me the only people who rack the slide in a "situation" are either idiots or hollywood movie actors. I always, always, always carry my P64 in the 6+1 state, with safety on. I have practiced drawing, flipping off the safety and cocking the hammer in one smooth motion. I've never had an issue w/ FTF or FTE after over 400 rounds in my 1977 P-64.
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by dfunk »

surf, I should also add that when I carry the P64, it's 6+1 safety off. However, I rarely carry it anymore - it's been exclusively a 1911 7+1 cocked and locked for months now.
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surfzombie
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Re: I decided NOT to change the springs and why.

Post by surfzombie »

OK all you guys that carry the P-64. Have you changed the hammer/main spring or are you stock springs?
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