9x18 shortage???

Info, pictures, advice...
115grfmj
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9x18 shortage???

Post by 115grfmj »

Okay I sure this has been dealt with already but does anyone esle notice a shortage of 9x18? Natchez, midway, sportmans guide, and cheaper than dirt are all extremely low or out of most kinds with no backorders listed ???. Whats this all about??? I just order some S&B from natchez, but where has all the other 9x18 gone? :o
nbender
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9x18 shortage???

Post by nbender »

Try R&R Arms:

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?actio ... and=9x18MK

For Silver Bear FMJ and 115-grain JHP. They also have the LVE green box.

AIM sells Silver Bear 94-grain JHP:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/9X18_Makarov.html

Ammunition Store lists Wolf, Brown Bear FMJ and 115-grain JHP, and Sellier & Bellot but they may be out of Brown Bear JHP - need to call:

http://www.ammunitionstore.com/pricelist_ammo4.htm#9x18

Ammunition to Go lists Brown Bear FMJ and Silver Bear FMJ and JHP:

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_60

Midway does have Fiocchi.

Widener's has the MFS brass-cased FMJ:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm? ... 869&dir=18

KY Imports has a variety of 9x18 but you really have to call to see what's actually available. Their website is not up to date. I think they have RAM JHP and FMJ, LVE, and Chinese FMJ:

http://www.kyimports.com/ammo.htm

Edit to add: all of these sites struggle to keep their internet info current. A phone call will get you much more information.
Last edited by nbender on November 3rd, 2006, 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
115grfmj
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9x18 shortage???

Post by 115grfmj »

WOW. Thank You. Thank you Thank you. ;D
oneshot
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9x18 shortage???

Post by oneshot »

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog/index ... 5905c79358

They have the Corbon Pow'RBall 70gr. the box I got was marked 1300fps 263 ft/lbs

Major case bulge on one of them I ran through my p64
barnett3006
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9x18 shortage???

Post by barnett3006 »

That MFS ammo from Widener's is marked +P......Is +P ammo safe to shoot in the 64?

As I understand there is not a SAAMI standard pressure level for 9x18 mak, only mil. spec. pressures. Mil. spec. ammo is generally hotter than SAAMI loads anyway, so...is the MFS ammo hotter than mil. ammo? I dont like the American Eagle loads because they're loaded pretty hot, I get bulged cases everytime.


It seems kind of counter productive to not shoot loads that are heavier than 95 gr. but instead shoot over-pressured ammo.
nbender
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9x18 shortage???

Post by nbender »

I've only shot that MFS "+P" through a Makarov, but it didn't seem hot to me. Not a real strong recoil. Average velocity of 20 rounds was 980 fps. In comparison, Federal American eagle travels around 1030 fps; Chinese ammo around the same as the Federal, and the newer Silver Bear FMJ goes around 970.

barnett, you had bulged cases with American Eagle? Through your P-64? That's interesting.
kempin
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9x18 shortage???

Post by kempin »

Not to seem over-cautious or paranoid, but . . .

If in any doubt, I would not use +p ammo in the p-64. If I experienced more than one case bulge with an ammo load, I would keep it as far as possible from that particular pistol.

Remember, the +p rating is for chamber pressure, not velocity. Recoil is not a reliable method of measuring chamber pressure. In fact, without some pretty expensive equipment, the only way to tell for sure if the pressure is too high is when something fails. Personally, I would rather err on the side of caution.

Besides, however hot you load the 9x18, it is never going to be a .357 mag. Any edge in power you might get with a super hot load in a carry situation it probably more than cancelled out if there is a chance you could blow up your pistol while practicing. If you are not comfortable with the power level of a standard load, I would recommend upgrading to a different caliber.

Yes, I know that both the Makarov and the p-64 are built pretty robustly and could probably take it. It's the "probably" that gets me, though. It only takes once.

For what it's worth. I tend to be pretty conservative, but I thought I would add my two cents.

God bless and straight shooting,

-Kempin
nbender
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9x18 shortage???

Post by nbender »

I don't think that MFS is +P in a SAAMI sense, and I haven't experienced or heard of bulged MFS cases, but you're certainly right Kempin - recoil and muzzle velocity are not quantitative measurements of chamber pressure. I don't mean to come across as assuring the safety of any round, and being conservative is certainly good advice.
barnett3006
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9x18 shortage???

Post by barnett3006 »

nbender; yeah, every empty American Eagle case was bulged. Though they werent grossly bulged like some of the cases that Ivs seen come out of Glocks, but they were bulged enough that I wont feel comfortable reloading them.

Here are some external case diameters from a sample of ammo and empty cases I have. (taken with a set of dial calipers)

Unfired Baurnal 95 gr. HP
case mouth = .388" case web = .389"

Unfired Silver Bear 115 gr. HP
Case mouth = .390" case web = .389"

Unfired Norinco 95 gr FMJ
mouth = .388" web = .389"

Unfired Wolf 100 gr. FMJ
mouth = .386" web = .388"

Fired American Eagle 95 gr FMJ
mouth = .392" web = .395" -- .398" on peak of bulge (most extreme bulge)
average bulge on the case web is .396" +/- .001"

Fired Hornady 95 gr XTP
mouth = .391" web = .391"

I didnt have any empty steel cases on hand.

I realize that .004 -- .008 thousanths of an inch is not a major bulge, im saying that the American Eagle ammo is the only ammo that I have fired that has had any sign of overpressure. I could be that I just got an unusually hot batch of ammo from AE...
Last edited by barnett3006 on November 12th, 2006, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
devlinfaust
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9x18 shortage???

Post by devlinfaust »

Some really good information here. I have kept the websites in my 'favorites' selections. Thanks to all for this information!
nbender
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9x18 shortage???

Post by nbender »

barnett, I just measured some case mouths at the request of member on a different forum and I noted measurements in the range of .387 to .389. S&B casing measured approximately .387 before firing and .392 - .393 after firing (the brass normally expands to seal the chamber).
barnett3006
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9x18 shortage???

Post by barnett3006 »

I just realized I typed my measurements wrong, .4xx instead of .3xx like they should have been ::). I corrected my previous post.

Nbender, I know the case expands to seal the chamber upon fireing. But the case shouldn't bulge at the web. I measured the one case with a bulge at .398 on the widest part of the bulge; the narrowest measurment from that same case at the web was .392. The .395 -- .398 was the range of measurments I had taken from measuring the widest part of the case webs that were from the same batch of American Eagle ammo. The cases had expanded into the small unsupported area in the chamber where the feed ramp is, as most overpressured ammo will do when fired from a semiauto pistol.

You measured the case mouth and got measurements similar to mine. That only shows that the forward chamber diameters are consistant in these guns. Did you take any measurements at the case web? Did you rotate the cases in the calipers to get consistant results?

Case mouth measurements can often be skewed; the mouths are often not round because they hit something (lane divider, trees, concrete floor, etc) when they are still hot and they deform.

As I said in my earlier post, I realize that a bulge of .008 over what the case diameter should be is not a major bulge; I am simply saying that American Eagle ammo is the only ammo that I have fired that has shown any signs of overpressure.
nbender
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9x18 shortage???

Post by nbender »

"Did you rotate the cases in the calipers to get consistant results?"

Yes.

"Did you take any measurements at the case web?"

No. Your post relates to bulged American Eagle ammunition and I quit buying $20 9x18 ammunition.

I can't understand the measurements you posted. You write that American Eagle:

"mouth = .392" web = .395" -- .398" on peak of bulge (most extreme bulge)
average bulge on the case web is .396" +/- .001"

I read that as if you measured .395 on an unfired cartridge web and .398 on a fired cartridge, but you post that the extreme bulge is as high as .008.

This subject borders on the extremely esoteric. But nobody has posted about bulged AM before and if there is an issue with this ammunition it's to everybody's benifit to have it noted. I only replied because your original measurements were off by 1/10 of an inch. As my old math text used to say, "The proof is left to the reader" and I hope others will confirm the problem.
duggi60
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9x18 shortage???

Post by duggi60 »

Ordered a 1,000 rounds of MFS -- I'll let everyone know if it
destroys any of my P64s.

::)
barnett3006
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9x18 shortage???

Post by barnett3006 »

nbender

My original post read right when after I typed it, I didnt see that I had typed the measurements wrong until a day later...I need to spend more time proofreading I geuss...

(either that or I need to pay attention as to how Im getting .48 cal ammo to chamber in my gun ;) )

I only bought that one box of AE 9x18 ammo because that was the only 9x18 ammo that my range had at the time and I really wanted to shoot my p64 more than what the ammo that I brought with me would have allowed. I dont like spending $20+ dollars on shootin' ammo either.

I have scince found a local source with Norinco green box for $8.00 a box ;D

As far as the .008 measurement goes...that is supposed to be an approximation relative to the other measurments of the other cases and I appologize for the lack of clarity on my part.

And if Im the only one who ever has this problem with AE 9x18 ammo, well... such is life I geuss.
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