OT - Other Pistols

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himmel
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OT - Other Pistols

Post by himmel » March 22nd, 2006, 5:58 pm

Well, they say they didn't sell much "horse mackerel" till they started calling it the name we know it by now--tuna! :P That's a pretty pistol, all right--is that a Greek letter on the bottom pic?

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abwehr
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Post by abwehr » March 23rd, 2006, 6:30 am

himmel,

The Letter in the bottom photo is the Old German "Fracture" letters; you know ther German that is so difficult to read beside not knowing the language. Actually, during the Third Reich, A. Hitler wanted the use of the Old German to be stopped because he thought it was developed by jews. Don't know if this is true or not????

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Post by himmel » March 23rd, 2006, 9:35 am

Curiouser and curiouser! LOL! I don't know either, but that is quite a thought!

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Post by abwehr » March 23rd, 2006, 12:37 pm

himmel,

If you have any interest in Lugers, take a look at this website: http://forum.lugerforum.com/index.php?s=

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Post by himmel » March 23rd, 2006, 1:30 pm

Wow! Thanks!

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Post by abwehr » March 23rd, 2006, 2:10 pm

himmel

OK, here is another Luger forum. For this one you will have to register to read, I think.

Website: http://luger.gunboards.com/

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Post by xelloss » March 24th, 2006, 9:18 am

Converting a Star or Astra to take a different round is not a good idea.
These are older guns and not meant for the strain of a modern cartridge like the 38 Super.
Like you said, it is a "crackin' round" and that is bad news for an old gun.
Yeah, you might have put thousands of rounds through yours without a problem.
That doesn't make it a good idea though. You just got lucky.
I have seen a bunch of these pistols that have come apart from shooting something other than 9 Largo.
Even if you make it fit the chamber properly, it just isn't a good idea.
Okay... I went through and looked up the data on the 9mm Largo and the .38 Super, and I have to admit I was in the wrong here, and retract my statement on the conversion... Sizes are the same (case length, overall cartridge length, bullet diameter, etc.), however, the PRESSURES of the two cartridges are different... There is some argument over whether the pressure of the Largo round is rated to 32,900 or 42,600psi (an argument which even the Spanish are unsure of, as they used an old pressure measure that has no modern conversion)... The .38 Super is rated at 36,500psi, meaning it's dangerous if the first rating is right, but ok if the second is correct... Since this is an unknown, one must always err on the side of caution...
Even if everything is working well, the undue stress on a frame not rated for it creates a bad situation... I can only assume my friend (who did a thorough check on both cartridges before the conversion) must have based his actions off the 42,600psi rating... Again, I'm now OPPOSED to this conversion as it may create a dangerous situation... :( :( :(

Thanks to both warthog and abwehr for getting me to check on this... I will be informing my friend to cease the use of .38 Super IMMEDIATELY... Thanks again, guys... :-[ :-[ :-[

-Mark

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OT - Other Pistols

Post by xelloss » March 24th, 2006, 9:32 am

abwehr, does your luger have a matching phenolic magazine??? Nice find, btw... How much did it set you back, if you don't mind my asking???

I'm looking to get another for my collection eventually... My 1917 has Imperial acceptance stamps, but no DWM marking... Kinda odd...

-Mark

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Post by abwehr » March 24th, 2006, 1:00 pm

xelloss,

The Phenolic based magazines normally did not have the S/N stamped on them. Only a few early ones had the S/N sort of "burned-in" but it did not work very well so they stopped. This "Black Widow" was $1250 in 96% condition. It was not a low price, but a little better than most dealers. With my Lugers, I don't buy any less than 96% condition unless it would be a rare piece. Unfortunantly, the magazine is the black phenolic bottom as this one should have the aluminum bottom with the S/N matching the pistol. All matching pistols are more difficult to find and it this one was all matching, the price would be in the $1800 range. This Luger was manufactured in February 1941 and is one of the earliest ones with the then new Manufacturer's stamp "byf" for Mauser. The early February pistols had the "42" code. This one is not really rare, but will be a little more valuable because it is one of the first Lugers to have the new "byf" code.

Your 1917 with the "DWM" code removed from the toggle sounds like it was a possible "sneak" Luger. "Sneaks" were assembled from pistols not turned in due to the Treaty of Verssaile for use by the Paramilitary forces. Now, you MAY have a "Sneak" that was issued to the Police during the Weimar Era. More information would be needed to make a determination.

The Luger I wanted was a 1915 with the "Blank Toggle" which would be similar to yours, but the one I was looking at was definetly a Police pistol from the Dusseldorf Police Headquarters.

Lugers are in a class by themselves. Unless you really know what you are looking at, always stay with the common Lugers and you won't get stung. Always buy the pistol and not the story!

If you have some photos, send them to me and I will see what you have and let you know any history I can find out.

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OT - Other Pistols

Post by warthog » March 28th, 2006, 8:21 pm

np xellous. I try to err on the side of caution also. ;)

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OT - Other Pistols

Post by tunnelrat » March 29th, 2006, 9:19 am

With regard to "Other Pistols", let me take a moment to sing the praises of my CZ-52. It is a full size, single action, service pistol that fires an 85 -- 95 grain, 7.62x25 cartridge at muzzle velocities significantly above 1400 fps.

Image

It makes definite "BOOM" when I set it off, and the muzzle flash is enough to light up an entire indoor range. It is such a flat shooter, that it is the only pistol I have had any luck with at ranges of 25 yards and beyond.

Yeee Haw! I do admire those Lugers you fellas talk about, but my CZ-52 has surely brightened up the days when I go shooting!

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Post by xelloss » March 29th, 2006, 10:50 am

Tunnelrat, try a tokarev in the same caliber... They're fun too... ;D ;D ;D

-Mark

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Post by tunnelrat » March 29th, 2006, 1:11 pm

Here's my CZ-52 with Zee's grips. They just came today!

Image

Image

A size comparison with the P-64:

Image

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OT - Other Pistols

Post by tunnelrat » March 29th, 2006, 1:13 pm

Tunnelrat, try a tokarev in the same caliber... They're fun too... ;D ;D ;D

-Mark
Mark,

I once took a Tokarev off an NVA officer who no longer needed it. I gave it as a reward to my first squad leader. I'd like to have it today, but I am content that it ended up in the hands of a very good guy.

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OT - Other Pistols

Post by abwehr » March 29th, 2006, 4:27 pm

tunnelrat,

Yea, the CZ-52 is one powerful pistol for sure! The folks next to you at the range know it has power too, LOL!

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