Decided against the P-64

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himmel
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Decided against the P-64

Post by himmel » March 2nd, 2006, 10:14 am

Hey, let me make one thing clear-- I am basically with amd on this--I'm not going to let speculation as to what may or may not happen in court, if it ever comes to that, control my actions to the extent of not fixing my handgun. I'm just saying that matheath isn't totally out in left field with his concerns. Massad Ayoob has talked about the same kind of thing in some of his articles based on his experiences as an "expert witness" for defendants in SD cases. And again, I'm not thinking so much in terms of criminal prosecutions, but of the civil lawsuit that is certain to follow if ever someone has to shoot someone else in self-defense, at least in some parts of the country--If I recall correctly, that fellow who shot the gang guys in the New York subway was pretty well bankrupted by the families of his so-called "victims". The standard of proof in a civil case is well below that of a criminal case, the lawyers are crafty and pretty much eliminate anyone with good sense from the jury pool straight off--at least they do their best to. It's a legit concern, and using "hot loads" and tuning triggers are just the kind of thing an attorney might try to use against an SD defendant.

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Decided against the P-64

Post by papabear » March 2nd, 2006, 10:17 am

matheath, you came, you bought, you shot, you didn't like...........it's OK. That's why they
make different brands of bicycle's, different spokes for different folks. IMHO, the DA trigger pull is heavy,
but the SA pull on my 1968 & 1969 is nice, I had a perfect score for my CCW class and I used my 1969 P-64 to get it. I prefere to keep everything original, (if possible), so no new springs for me. My P-64's (3) I will say that when I first got them even the SA pull was a little heavy, but after a 2-3 hundered rounds they loosened up and they are fine now. So, to each his own, I will say that my 1976 P-64 seems has a little heavier DA pull, but I just put it in SA and it's ok, and I am hoping the SA will loosen up as did the other two. Just my 2 cents worth. Please keep coming back, I am sure we will have plenty more to discuss in the future, ie., how about trying the P-63! Take Care
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Decided against the P-64

Post by kempin » March 2nd, 2006, 10:26 am

A man's decision on a pistol is his own to make, and especially if you are planning to carry, you should choose the gun in your price range with which you are most comfortable. Personally, I bought a p-64 because it seemed a good buy--a brand new service grade pistol for $139. (And I am part polish.) I never intended it for carry, but more as an interesting addition to my gun safe at a very reasonable price. And yes, the DA out of the box is not only heavy, it is ludicrous.

However, the function of my pistol has improved after a break in period. The DA on mine is now just really bad instead of ludicrous, and it can be fixed fairly easily. The pistol now shoots well and functions smoothly. I would probably do the spring fix before I would carry, since you cannot keep it "cocked and locked," but after some use, the pistol has impressed me. (Especially for the money.) I would have no reservations about carrying the p-64 as long as both the gun and the shooter are broken in.

But that's the great thing about opinions. . .

God bless and straight shooting,

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Decided against the P-64

Post by butch50 » March 2nd, 2006, 11:49 am

I don't know how anyone would find out I changed the spring in my pistol. Fifth ammendment will protect me from responding to any questions of that nature, and unless someone is genius enough to find this webstie and tie it to me, then there is no other way to know.

I suppose an attorney could have an expert take the gun apart and examine it, but really, who is expert enough to spot the spring change and to know what it is and why? Not very likely to happen in my estimation.

Then again, unless you have very deep pockets I don't think there is all that great a chance of facing a civil suit. If anyone has some actual facts on how often a self defense shooter is sued, I would like to see them - seems like we whistle past the graveyard on that one a lot.

As to not liking the P-64, I can certainly understand that - it is not a pistol for just anyone and everyone. I love mine, but would not expect a lot of other people to.
Last edited by butch50 on March 2nd, 2006, 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Decided against the P-64

Post by mikethewreck » March 2nd, 2006, 7:37 pm

I agree. I usually carry a stock Glock 27 for self defense, but my P-64 gets a workout as my trunk gun. With the 16# Wolff spring it shoots well (it was impossible without the mod to pull the trigger single fingered). I think it is one thing to "trick" out a gun and make it dangerous. The spring mod on the P-64 makes it usable. And if you don't like them, that's great. MORE FOR US!

(Hear that, mongo? More for us! More good.)

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Decided against the P-64

Post by matheath » March 2nd, 2006, 11:38 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I have a number of pistols and not a single revolver for CCW, so I'm thinking of a J-frame .357 or a Ruger SP101. You know, revolvers are priced right these days.

As far as the P-64, I would love to learn that the new springs became available from a reputable company. I will definitely keep up with the board here to watch for that.

I know that some people here don't think it's likely that opposing attorneys would crucify them for a 'lightened trigger,' but I believe they may have too much confidence in the scruples of our attorneys. Here's hoping no one has to find out.

Enjoy your shooting

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Decided against the P-64

Post by mongo » March 3rd, 2006, 10:22 am

I wouldn't lose sleep over attorneys. They will find something wrong with the color socks you have on in a justifiable homicide.

himmel
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Decided against the P-64

Post by himmel » March 3rd, 2006, 11:47 am

Hey Butch--5th amendment doesn't protect you in a civil suit--

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cz83
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Decided against the P-64

Post by cz83 » March 3rd, 2006, 1:35 pm

I love my P-64 but for now its only in my car glove compartment (don't like the DA pull but its getting better the more I use it at the range). I usually carry my stock guns (HK,Sig,Mak,CZ and my P63) with no modification at all. Lawyers scares the *&^% out of me. They have this way of finding things.

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Decided against the P-64

Post by nscale » March 3rd, 2006, 5:23 pm

I dont understand not choosing a weapon based on the DA pull? Folks have been carrying SA 1911's for years. Now that is a heavy DA Pull.
Just cock the damn thing and shoot.

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Decided against the P-64

Post by warthog » March 3rd, 2006, 6:19 pm

absurd.
I agree

himmel
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Decided against the P-64

Post by himmel » March 3rd, 2006, 7:08 pm

I like your thinking nscale! LOL!

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Decided against the P-64

Post by papabear » March 3rd, 2006, 7:29 pm

Your right nscale, once you rack a round in the chamber its in SA and sitting on go!
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Decided against the P-64

Post by novgarod » March 3rd, 2006, 7:58 pm

First, I want to say I enjoy this forum, the members' comments and, of course, shooting my two CZAKs. This has become a serious thread and ignorance does not have a place in the realm of CCW - it can cost you your livelyhood for the rest of your days.

Florida came to its senses last year. It enacted a law based on the "Castle Doctrine" -- that one's home (also your car) is one's castle. A person now is not legally required to be hunted down room by room by an intruder before the victim pulls the trigger. The law allows the victim to shoot back without fear of being prosecuted for being overzealous about protecting his life - this means probable protection from civil liability.

The NRA is encouraging other states to follow Florida's lead. Has your state passed a similar bill? If so, does it provide additional protection against civil liability? Have you thought out your responses if self-defense becomes necessary? Do you check how CCW laws differ in the states that you pass through during your vacation? Ignorance can get you in trouble! Reciposity laws could cause you to lose both your gun to another state and then lose your CCW license in your resident state.

So, I am assuming that any recommendation of a spring change on this forum is for a CZAK intended for range use only. I have provided information and caveats about such changes from shooting at the range. CCW is a completely different arena and it has its own rules.

Be safe out there!

butch50
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Decided against the P-64

Post by butch50 » March 3rd, 2006, 9:10 pm

5th amendment doesn't apply to civil cases? Bummer - but it still seems extremely unlikely that anyone would figure out I had changed the spring.

Still, does anyone have any factual information on how often civil suits follow SD shootings? I am curious to see if we, the ccws out there, are seeing boogeymen or not.

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